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Thread: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I think if you look at how people live their lives BEFORE they are in the public eye and how they live their faith you get a good general feel of what they really are. MOST politicians 'find God' right before an election...pandering to congregations for votes.

    Obama...well...he sat in a hate filled race mongers church for 20 years and denied hearing any of it. I believe him of of course...I'll take him at his word. But only because I doubt he was paying much attention. OR...he is lying and he was full on engaged...you choose...hell...I dont care.
    But you still haven't answered the question, so let me ask it another way...

    In your opinion, did any of the former U.S. President since Reagan use their religion to garner (your) vote(s)? (For the older crowd, we can go back as far as JFK or Ike if you prefer.) If so, which one(s)? And why do you believe that said President's proclaimation of his religious preference was anymore disengenuious than any other before him? What about his conduct lead you to believe he was lying about being a follower of the religion he claim to be a believere of?

    Note: The issue now seems to be that the President isn't who he claims to be based on his public pronouncement of his choosen religious faith. So, now I would like to know what makes his pronouncement any less believable than his predecessors. Again, those who don't believe he is a Christian, you are entitled to your opinion. I'm not putting you down for it. So, please don't misunderstand me here. I'm simply wondering why is it so difficult for people to take him at face value whereas it was so easy for us to accept ALL other Presidents who came before him?
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-23-10 at 04:26 PM.

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Barack Obama. Relevance?

    Seems your leader answered your question for ya....he thinks it has relevance.....Even if you don't.


    j-mac
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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Seems your leader answered your question for ya....he thinks it has relevance.....Even if you don't.
    My leader has not been quoted on this thread.

    Please show me where Obama's supposed Islamic faith influences his policy decisions.

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I'm not saying Muslims may not view him as being born Muslim.

    I'm saying that he doesn't self identify as a Muslim and thus its ridiculous for a non-muslim to suggest that he was a muslim based on a religion they dont' even follows edict.

    Unless you subscribe to every other edict Islam proclaims Tex
    I don't subscribe to anything Zyphlin. I simply recognize what the religion says about children born into their faith.

    I find it just as rediculus to ignore how a religion views a child, NOT an adult.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Maybe you can answer the question of why Obama's religion matters?
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    "...[D]oing the Lord's work is a thread that's run through our politics since the very beginning. And it puts the lie to the notion that the separation of church and state in America means faith should have no role in public life. Imagine Lincoln's Second Inaugural without its reference to 'the judgments of the Lord.' Or King's 'I Have a Dream' speech without its reference to 'all of God's children.' Or President Kennedy's Inaugural without the words, 'here on Earth, God's work must truly be our own.' At each of these junctures, by summoning a higher truth and embracing a universal faith, our leaders inspired ordinary people to achieve extraordinary things."


    do you know who said that?


    j-mac
    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Barack Obama. Relevance?
    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Seems your leader answered your question for ya....he thinks it has relevance.....Even if you don't.


    j-mac
    I just wanted to put the matter of the question asked in its proper context. On the face of it, yes, it would appear that placing one's faith in God does matter to President Obama. As far as I'm concerned that's a good thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    I don't subscribe to anything Zyphlin. I simply recognize what the religion says about children born into their faith.

    I find it just as rediculus to ignore how a religion views a child, NOT an adult.
    But again I ask what does this have to do with Barrack H. Obama, Jr., the man!? Not the child, but the man? If he has renounced Islam as a man, what difference does it make what his old religion - that which was thrust upon him as a child - have to do with how he conducts himself now as a man?

    You're doing the same exact song-N-dance Rev. F. Graham has done. No matter how truthful he may have been concerning the religious lineage of Islam, if the individual renounces said faith, what does it matter now what faith he was born into? Let me explain why this line of questioning is relevent...

    In post #198, j-mac posted the Islamic definition of "Apostasy" - (in short) to turn away from or renounce your religions, towit, Islam. He then posted a list of ways inwhich someone who may not have renounce Islam may be clever enough to hide among us pretending to be something they are not. This is what I believe Rev. F. Graham was attempting to get at...a play on words yet still lamenting that we have a "closet Muslim in the White House" in essentially stating that "born a Muslim, always a Muslim". So, I ask how can one renounce Islam yet continue to disguise his true faith as the highest level public figure in this country? How is it possible that his turning towards Mecca goes un-notices? That it goes un-notices that he prostrate himselve five times a day? That he reads from the Qu'ran regularly? That he doesn't eat pork? How does all these things go un-notices?
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-23-10 at 04:56 PM.

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But you still haven't answered the question, so let me ask it another way...

    In your opinion, did any of the former U.S. President since Reagan use their religion to garner (your) vote(s)? If so, which one(s)? And why do you believe that said President's proclaimation of his religious preference was anymore disengenuious than any other before him? What about his conduct lead you to believe he was lying about being a follower of the religion he claim to be a believere of?

    Note: The issue now seems to be that the President isn't who he claims to be based on his public pronouncement of his choosen religious faith. So, now I would like to know what makes his pronouncement any less believable than his predecessors. Again, those who don't believe he is a Christian, you are entitled to your opinion. I'm not putting you down for it. So, please don't misunderstand me here. I'm simply wondering why is it so difficult for people to take him at face value whereas it was so easy for us to accept ALL other Presidents who came before him?
    Lets see...

    Bush went to church before he was elected and after, but I dont recall (maybe I missed it) Bush inviting cameras in to record the events and having it plastered on the news. So I would put Bush in the religous category. I know Bill had a fair amount of religous contacts before and after. Hugely ironic him 'praying' in private with the 'reverand' Jessie Jackson for strength following the Lewinsky affair thing (then again...since it was just before the revelation about Jessie bastard child, maybe they were just sharing a 'ho down'!). I understand he spent a lot of time in the oral office repeating the words Ohmigodohmigodohmigod...over and over (interjected with some "yeah thats right baby" and some "do that thing you do with the cigar". So...Lets just call him 'spiritual.' Bush sr was a regular church goer before and after. Reagan, not so much. Carter...absolutely. Nixon...no clue but most democrats believe he regularly took communion with Satan...not sure if that counts...

    Now...

    How many white politicians suddenly find religion just before elections and end up in black congregations...and on camera? And which side of the aisle do they usually reside? And after the elections how often do they attend?

    Obama was a partier in HS and college. He was an admitted crackfiend while he was an Illinois representative. Other than his attendance at the right rev Wrights church I dont think he went...before or since. He says in 20 years he never heard any of the race rhetoric that was going on in Wrights church which means he was either deeply meditating or on a snoozer or lying.

    OK...has that adequately answered your question?

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    VanceMack,

    I'll take it. Thank you.

    Next daring soul, please...

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    I think it has been shown that there is a wide spectrum of belief under the tent of Islam, much like there is under the tent of Christianity.

    And no, I don't remember the Palin church thing, but I don't doubt that it happened. It's no more justified than any other criticism of religion, in my opinion, so long as that religion does not affect policy. If it does, I think the door has been opened for legitimate criticism.
    Islamic beliefs aren't the same as our western Judeo-Christian beliefs, to claim there is no real difference is silly.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Islamic beliefs aren't the same as our western Judeo-Christian beliefs, to claim there is no real difference is silly.
    And to think that I said that is also silly.

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But again I ask what does this have to do with Barrack H. Obama, Jr., the man!? Not the child, but the man? If he has renounced Islam as a man, what difference does it make what his old religion - that which was thrust upon him as a child - have to do with how he conducts himself now as a man?

    You're doing the same exact song-N-dance Rev. F. Graham has done. No matter how truthful he may have been concerning the religious lineage of Islam, if the individual renounces said faith, what does it matter now what faith he was born into? Let me explain why this line of questioning is relevent...
    Why do you have such a problem with the facts? He was a Muslim. According to 1.5 billion Muslims and their faith, he was a Muslim.

    Now he is a Christian. Nothing in what the Reverend said was false yet you obsessively cling to denying the history. Why do you resist being factually accurate about the man's past?



    In post #198, j-mac posted the Islamic definition of "Apostasy" - (in short) to turn away from or renounce your religions, towit, Islam. He then posted a list of ways inwhich someone who may not have renounce Islam may be clever enough to hide among us pretending to be something they are not. This is what I believe Rev. F. Graham was attempting to get at...a play on words yet still lamenting that we have a "closet Muslim in the White House" in essentially stating that "born a Muslim, always a Muslim". So, I ask how can one renounce Islam yet continue to disguise his true faith as the highest level public figure in this country? How is it possible that his turning towards Mecca goes un-notices? That it goes un-notices that he prostrate himselve five times a day? That he reads from the Qu'ran regularly? That he doesn't eat pork? How does all these things go un-notices?
    Once again you rely on nothing but your own bias to support your claims. First you falsely accused me of saying things I never said and now you are using personal bias to find the "true intentions" of the Reverend. When you can rely on facts, let us know. Relying on supposition isn't an argument.
    Last edited by texmaster; 08-23-10 at 05:39 PM.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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