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The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

texmaster you need to delete some of your PMs.
 
Why is it you conservatives can manage to make a 40 page thread about if Obama is really Christian or not (not to mention probably another 5 threads like this one) but not one damn thread about the economy?

Yeah...geez...damn conservatives...No intelligent thinking liberal would post on this thread...only mindless moronic liberals...or...'centrists' :lamo
 
Yep...Governor Patterson waded in to resolve this a week ago. Better land...better deal (from what i understand).

why would someone pass up a better deal?
 
I don't understand how anybody actually listens to people like him.
It really is insufferable, I was forced to listen to men of his ilk when I was small.

I agree with the wingnut types that Obama isn't a Christian, however, I think his lack of belief is rather clear. I'm of the firm opinion we've elected an atheist president. He has all the symptoms of someone who doesn't believe and hasn't for a long time, if ever.

In a sense, when conservatives ramble about people trying to covertly destroy traditional America, I agree with them. You couldn't be a liberal in power here unless you're a wolf in sheep's clothing.
 
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Athiest is what Ann coulter thinks too. I think it's worth a thought.
 
It really is insufferable, I was forced to listen to men of his ilk when I was small.

I agree with the wingnut types that Obama isn't a Christian, however, I think his lack of belief is rather clear. I'm of the firm opinion we've elected an atheist president. He has all the symptoms of someone who doesn't believe and hasn't for a long time, if ever.

In a sense, when conservatives ramble about people trying to covertly destroy traditional America, I agree with them. You couldn't be a liberal in power here unless you're a wolf in sheep's clothing.


I hardly see his lack of belief as a problem, though. I was under the impression that even Americans were astute enough to realise that religion has no place in politics -- Americans don't really care that he is pious, as long as he calls himself a Christian, right? I mean, the whole Christian/Muslim debate is POLITICAL posturing, it has nothing to do with actual religion!
 
Such as, pray tell?
It might just be the read I get off of him, but whenever he talks about faith, it always has that slightly hollow, insipid tone to it. It's so preprogrammed, so rehearsed, and so trite that I can just tell he has no idea what it means to speak about faith from the heart.

That, and his book has a great bit about how he learned religion was all bunk, and he seems to have picked his Chicago church purely for political gain, as he obviously has little to do with Wright's crackpot message.

Simply put: I can't find a Christian thing about the man, and just as well.

I hardly see his lack of belief as a problem, though. I was under the impression that even Americans were astute enough to realise that religion has no place in politics -- Americans don't really care that he is pious, as long as he calls himself a Christian, right? I mean, the whole Christian/Muslim debate is POLITICAL posturing, it has nothing to do with actual religion!
Personally, I think it's very much to do with religion. Your New York and Berkeley types may not care, but I think the large majority of people in, to pick a state at random, Alabama are seriously concerned about whether or not the President genuflects or bows towards Mecca.

Atheists are the most mistrusted group of people in the United States (I believe that includes child molestors and communists), and relatively few Americans would vote for an open unbeliver. Sadly, not only must you be a Christian, you have to be the right kind. Americans are most certainly not firm believers in separation of church and state, not on the whole. To most, it seems to mean "the state leaves Christians alone, but it has to do what we tell it to and that can be separate enough."

Damn, now I really wish I could find that bit where some dewey-eyed preacher referred to separation of church and state as a "one way wall." It perfectly captures the sentiment I'm trying to describe.

BRB GOOGLE.
 
Dumbledore is definitely more powerful than Gandalf.
 
Athiest is what Ann coulter thinks too. I think it's worth a thought.

I thought about Ann Coulter. I feel ill now. Thank you very much...
 
Dumbledore is definitely more powerful than Gandalf.

are you kidding, Dumbledore is a mere mortal, Gandalf is a Maia, and was under the tutelage of Manwë before he went to Middle Earth, as well as wielding Narya, the Ring of Fire, Gandalf could kick Dumbledores arse with one toe.
 
are you kidding, Dumbledore is a mere mortal, Gandalf is a Maia, and was under the tutelage of Manwë before he went to Middle Earth, as well as wielding Narya, the Ring of Fire, Gandalf could kick Dumbledores arse with one toe.

And what did he do with that amazng power? He cast a stupid light spell at the dragons in return of the king. Like...wow.
 
And what did he do with that amazng power? He cast a stupid light spell at the dragons in return of the king. Like...wow.

You need to read the books, he killed a Balrog, one of the most powerful creatures in Middle Earth, a spawn of Morgoth, he took all power from Saruman, who was more than his equal in power, and defeated the Witch King, Saurons most powerful liutenant.

(i swear i'm not a nerd :lol:)
 
The underlying truth in all of this - 42 pages into this thread - is that people simply do not trust Obama at this point, and they have no idea who he even is.

Notice how we are seeing less and less of him as time passes.

He doesn't even seem that interested in being President anymore.
 
The underlying truth in all of this - 42 pages into this thread - is that people simply do not trust Obama at this point, and they have no idea who he even is.

Notice how we are seeing less and less of him as time passes.

He doesn't even seem that interested in being President anymore.

yep, nothing like avoiding the media to show how much of a bad president you are :roll:
 
The underlying truth in all of this - 42 pages into this thread - is that people simply do not trust Obama at this point, and they have no idea who he even is.

Notice how we are seeing less and less of him as time passes.

He doesn't even seem that interested in being President anymore.

Ok, fine... I don't trust him either... but this whole nonsense about his religion is almost as absurd as the birther nonsense...'
 
Athiest is what Ann coulter thinks too. I think it's worth a thought.

Id go with agnostic. an athiest intentionally doesnt believe. An agnostic simply doesnt care.
 
I apologize if this has already been stated.

Since religion is based on faith and submission to a higher power how can someone that doesn't know about or practice the religion (like a newborn) be follower of the religion?

Read the OP quote and you will see your position agrees with reverand Graham.

Towit:
I think the president's problem is that he was born a Muslim, his father was a Muslim. The seed of Islam is passed through the father like the seed of Judaism is passed through the mother. He was born a Muslim, his father gave him an Islamic name," Graham told CNN's John King in a televised interview that aired Thursday night.

"Now it's obvious that the president has renounced the prophet Mohammed, and he has renounced Islam, and he has accepted Jesus Christ. That's what he says he has done. I cannot say that he hasn't. So I just have to believe that the president is what he has said," Graham continued, adding that "the Islamic world sees the president as one of theirs."

Graham appears to be saying the exact opposite of what I just said. Graham stated that Obama was born Muslim and later renounced the religion and then doubtfully suggests Obama is a Christian.

I am saying specifically that no one can be born religious. Religion is a learned ideal, not an instinct.

Graham was stating what some people...muslims and non muslims alike...perceive as a fact. Whether it is or isnt to you or me is immaterial. Some people believe that an infant doused during a catholic baptism is then catholic. Are they?

Holy crap...

Obama was never a Muslim to begin with to denounce his "Muslim faith". He never had the faith to begin with, I don't recall him ever mentioning he prayed or fasted or gave zakhat!

If tomorrow I left Islam and converted to Christianity then yes I denounced my "Muslim faith" because prior to that, I followed the pillars of Islam

He just converted to Christianity.

So NO Muslims believe you are born into your fathers faith?

I think it has been pretty well established...not ALL muslim sects, like not all Christian sects...view things the same way. Because you or I personally disagree with it doesnt make it real to others. Nor does it necessarily make it real to Obama...lets accept that as well. I dont think thats what Graham was saying.

I've pulled these posts together in the hopes of ending this entire debate.

I understand what Rev. F. Graham was saying, essentially, that according to the Muslim faith, Pres. Obama inherited his father's Muslim religious heritage because according to the Islam, (male) children born to Muslim fathers are Muslims. I think the problem with what he said is the way he said it.

Rev. Graham leads his commentary giving the impression that the President's religious birth-right heritage is set in stone, and he cements that with his closing statement.

I think the president's problem is that he was born a Muslim, his father was a Muslim. The seed of Islam is passed through the father like the seed of Judaism is passed through the mother. He was born a Muslim, his father gave him an Islamic name."

Read in this manner, Rev. Graham plants the seed in many people's minds, "born a Muslim, always a Muslim," and that there's no getting away from it.

His closing statement...

"the Islamic world sees the president as one of theirs..."

...reaffirms his opening assertation, "born a Muslim, always a Muslim."

Now, althought Rev. Graham does state...

"Now it's obvious that the president has renounced the prophet Mohammed, and he has renounced Islam, and he has accepted Jesus Christ....

...his next lines casts doubts...

That's what he says he has done. I cannot say that he hasn't. So I just have to believe that the president is what he has said..."

Had he not added that commentary but instead stated firmly...

President Obama is a Christian in the holy eyes of God and our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ...

...or something to that affect, we wouldn't be having this long, drawn out discussion. But as the saying goes, Rev. Graham "threw the President under the bus" by not closing the book of doubt as to whether or not our nation's 44th President is or is not a Muslim.

IMO, this is what I think Rev. Graham should have said:

I think the president's problem is that he was born a Muslim. Under the tennants of Islam, his father was a Muslim, the seed of Islam is passed through the father like the seed of Judaism is passed through the mother. As such under Islam, the President was born a Muslim [and,] his father gave him an Islamic name," Graham told CNN's John King in a televised interview that aired Thursday night.

"Now it's obvious that the president has renounced the prophet Mohammed, and he has renounced Islam, and he has accepted Jesus Christ. Therefore, the President is a Christian in the holy eyes of God through the saving grace of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior," Graham continued, adding that "although the Islamic world sees the president as one of theirs because of the traditions of Islam, he is a Christain."

Had he said words to that affect as editted above, this entire issue would have been put to rest that night (...except for conspiracy theorist, birthers, truthers...you know...the people you just can't convince one way or the other no matter what is said to the contrary or what proof you place before their eyes).

Again, it's not that what Rev. Graham said was inaccurate; it's just that he left the seed of doubt lingering there.
 
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Towit:
I've pulled these posts together in the hopes of ending this entire debate.

I understand what Rev. F. Graham was saying, essentially, that according to the Muslim faith, Pres. Obama inherited his father's Muslim religious heritage because according to the Islam, (male) children born to Muslim fathers are Muslims. I think the problem with what he said is the way he said it.

Rev. Graham leads his commentary giving the impression that the President's religious birth-right heritage is set in stone, and he cements that with his closing statement.

Read in this manner, Rev. Graham plants the seed in many people's minds, "born a Muslim, always a Muslim," and that there's no getting away from it......edit....


Had he said words to that affect as editted above, this entire issue would have been put to rest that night (...except for conspiracy theorist, birthers, truthers...you know...the people you just can't convince one way or the other no matter what is said to the contrary or what proof you place before their eyes).

Again, it's not that what Rev. Graham said was inaccurate; it's just that he left the seed of doubt lingering there.

Rev. Graham is a spiteful, petty, sad excuse of a man. He zealously rails against another religion while his own religion is severly lacking and so full of holes it doesn't hold water. Graham's vindictive behaviour and support for a genocidal maniac renders him unfit to sit at the table of leaders among men.
 
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I hardly see his lack of belief as a problem, though. I was under the impression that even Americans were astute enough to realise that religion has no place in politics -- Americans don't really care that he is pious, as long as he calls himself a Christian, right? I mean, the whole Christian/Muslim debate is POLITICAL posturing, it has nothing to do with actual religion!
We don't like liars. He says he is christian.
 
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