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Thread: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    "Saint Anthony, tell God; I need my keys!" ~~ George Carlin

    But yeah. What do you call it if not praying? I'm not Catholic, but I am nowhere near ignorant on Catholicism. When you pray the rosary, you are praying to Mary. When you ask saints for intervention, you are praying to the saints. If you want to say I'm wrong, then I need to know the word for what you're doing (if 'praying' is incorrect). And it's not like asking a friend to intercede, because when you ask a friend, you hear their response.
    Not always... you don't have prayer lists at church in which you ask your fellow parishoners to pray on your behalf...

    And we refer to the invocation of the saints...
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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Not always... you don't have prayer lists at church in which you ask your fellow parishoners to pray on your behalf...

    And we refer to the invocation of the saints...
    True for Catholics... Baptists however have prayer lists all the time. The beginning of Sunday Church usually identfies folks in the community or within the church who are going through troubled times and the Pastor asks if the congregation would pray on their behalf.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Not always... you don't have prayer lists at church in which you ask your fellow parishoners to pray on your behalf...

    And we refer to the invocation of the saints...
    I don't go to church, but there's still a human involved in creation of said prayer lists. And it's created for fellow humans to read or hear. Whereas (it seems to me) that anytime you talk, either in your head or out loud to somebody who is 'not of this world', i.e., a tangible fellow human, that would be 'praying'.

    I thank you for trying to help me make sense of it.

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    You can deny all you want, but I have never claimed anything except that Obama said he went to a Muslim school.

    Like I said ten posts ago, your beef is with Obama, not me. Write him a letter and call him a liar... you won't be the first.
    Hey, I am no fan of the President, but I try to be honest about him.

    And you did make ignorance references to Indonesia. You did say that they were Islamic schools because the country is 86% Muslim without the knowledge that there are five official religions in the country... but don't let ignorance of the world's fourth largest country get in the way of a good anti-Obama rant...
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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    I don't go to church, but there's still a human involved in creation of said prayer lists. And it's created for fellow humans to read or hear. Whereas (it seems to me) that anytime you talk, either in your head or out loud to somebody who is 'not of this world', i.e., a tangible fellow human, that would be 'praying'.

    I thank you for trying to help me make sense of it.
    And humans were involved in putting together the litany of the saints. Catholics believe that all Saints are in Heaven and that as beings in Heaven, they can also pray to God and intercede directly with God on our behalf. We also pray directly to God, ask our priests and decons to do the same as well as fellow parishoners. Personally, I want as many people and saints praying for me as possible... I know I need it...
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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Yes, but unlike you, I know how to read. Indonesia is 86% Muslim. The U.S. is 58% Christian.

    Ummm....Sorry Gill...Look again....


    The majority of Americans (76%) identify themselves as Christians...

    Religion in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Wiki not good enough? Hell, even the Christian bashing Jon Meacham in his Newsweek column places the number at 76%

    According to the American Religious Identification Survey that got Mohler's attention, the percentage of self-identified Christians has fallen 10 percentage points since 1990, from 86 to 76 percent.

    Meacham: The End of Christian America - Newsweek

    And Meacham is no fan of Christians, or Christianity I assure you. So where are you getting your information from Gill?


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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Remember folks...

    You can't be born gay

    But you can be born a specific religion



    Regardless of whether or not that religion dictates you're "one of theirs", faith is an entirely self made entity and designation. If you have never considered yourself Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Zoroastrian, Hindu, or whatever else have you then you're not Christian, Jewish, Muslims, etc.

    Amazing thing that, no "holy book" is law or some kind of definitive absolute unquestionable truth. The fact the Muslim holy book says the child of a muslim man is Muslim doesn't magically make it a universal truth.

    See, I live in America. We have this thing called freedom. I'm not going to back handed slander someone to try and benefit the idiot conspiracy theorist by insisting he is, or was, something he states he never was simply because some holy book says by their view he is. Great for them. By my view, as an American, and a belief in choice, Barack Obama has never considered himself Muslim and therefore is not muslim.

    And free to live in a country where you are entitled to rant on things not being discussed or claimed to prove you aren't some crazed islamaphobe.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    "I think the president's problem is that he was born a Muslim, his father was a Muslim. The seed of Islam is passed through the father like the seed of Judaism is passed through the mother. He was born a Muslim, his father gave him an Islamic name," Graham told CNN's John King in a televised interview that aired Thursday night.

    "Now it's obvious that the president has renounced the prophet Mohammed, and he has renounced Islam, and he has accepted Jesus Christ. That's what he says he has done. I cannot say that he hasn't. So I just have to believe that the president is what he has said," Graham continued, adding that "the Islamic world sees the president as one of theirs."
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Very well said by the Reverand
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    You need to read up on the faith of Islam. Sons are born into the faith by their fathers. Its in the Qur'an, not something you can judge for yourself. As Graham said, he's renounced that faith for Christianity but it doesn't change the facts.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Sounded like to me he was clarifying the confusion explaining the history, the faith of Islam, and the choice Obama made to become a Christian.
    Quote Originally Posted by the makeout hobo View Post
    That means Islam would have accepted him as one of their own, but that doesn't mean he ever at any point considered himself Muslim.
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    Its what the religion believes and recognizes. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Okay, so let's say that it is true that under the Islamic faith, the son "inherits" his religious faith from the father. As has already been echoed by the President himself, his biological father was never involved in his life. So, he didn't receive the teachings of Islam from him. Instead, he likely learned about it from his step-father who raised him until he was around 10 years old. But even that brief period isn't enough to cement the teachings of Islam into the mind of a child. It takes alot longer for those ideals to become habit forming.

    Point is the man has stated publicly what his religious preference is, and he has done so on a number of occasions. It is public knowledge that he attended a Christian church for over 20 years. The anti-American rants by his former pastor notwithstanding, how do you remain with a Christian church that long and hide your Muslim faith? It's just not possible!

    The President doesn't conduct himself as a typical Muslim despite having an accute understand about the religion. I just think it absord that we're even having this discussion!
    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    What are you talking about? Its the faith of Islam we are discussing. That is what they believe.
    I pulled these comments from the thread to point to out the larger issue here and that is the true purpose of this thread. It's not about discussing the tennants of Islam, but rather as justabubba said:
    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    to impugn Obama's character.
    Notice how the thread starts out giving credit to Rev. Franklin Graham for speaking out on the lineage of the Muslim faith as it allegedly applies to the President as the Rev, understands it, but that the topic quickly turns to whether or not President Obama practise the religion or even believes in its tenants and then plunges headlong into stead-fast assertions that essentially take the tone that "he [the President] was born a Muslim and that means that under Islamic tenants he cannot erase it; he cannot unbecome a Muslim."

    In the OP, Mr.Vicchio is correct in that he did seem to disagree w/Rev. F. Graham's song-and-dance routine and backs that up with this post:

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Did I SAY it was true? More Hyperpartisan BS from one of the worst of this forum for such "Put words into your mouth" posters! Did I IMPLY in ANY SHAPE FASHION OR FORM that such was true?

    NOPE.

    Did I CLAIM TO AGREE WITH THIS?

    NOPE.

    IN FACT, I was INSULTING Islam, for this stupid belief that if Daddy is a Muslim, YOU ARE TOO. I'm agreeing with your position, AND YOU ARE ****ING ATTACKING ME.

    I'm right sick of your self righteous arrogant condescending attitude, back off or apologize.

    WE ALL know that you're in such a tizzy to kill a thread discussing Obama and his Islamic background, which HE HAS ONE, whether you want to accept or admit that. You are so quick to run and attack anyone that brings the issue up that you miss what's going on to prove how "Witty and cool" you are. Further more, people run to "Thank You" in a giant worthless circle jerk of spam.

    IF YOU READ THE OP, I said "Nice Dance there Rev." Insinuating he danced all over the issue. Which he did. Did I say "RIGHT ON REV!!!" No.

    So BACK RIGHT THE HELL OFF.
    So, I give him credit. Still, if you read through the thread one can't help but come away with the notion that this isn't about the tennants of Islam but rather it's about how closely does the President hold true to those tennants. In other words, it's still a matter of "guilt by association at birth" rather than "the President renounced his Muslim faith and turned to Christianity, therefore the President is a Christian, plain and simple."

    Those who say they are arguing the affirmative, that the President was born a Muslim, fail to see the hypocrasy of their argument. That is to say it doesn't matter to what religion a person was born into. What matters is what religious convictions he aspires to? What does the President believe? What shapes his believe system? Has he conducted himself in accordance to those beliefs? How do you determine if his beliefs are in concert with American customs and traditions? Is he upholding American values under whatever religion he places his faith under?

    Those are the larger questions we should be asking, not attempting to "connect" his birth-right religion to radical Islam. At every turn this is what I see happening, i.e., "it's true he was born a Muslim...he bowed down to a Muslim head of state...he supports the right for Muslims to worship as they please...he support the right for Muslims to build a mosque near Ground Zero," therefore he must be on the side of radial Islam and Muslim extremist = terrorist!

    Oh, Rush and other talking heads are fond of saying, "don't listen to what the President says, look at what he does" as a way to absolve themselves of any mud-slinging here so that they're not accused of denying someone their right to practise whatever religion they please, but it's not that difficult to connect the President with radical Islam. All you have to do is keep the seed of hatred and fear in the minds of your listeners by never stating firmly, publicly that the President is a Christian, plain and simple, end of discussion, and check any caller who claims otherwise. But that's not what's happening here.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-23-10 at 12:19 PM.

  9. #169
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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Have you ever defended the President's right to be a Muslim regardless of which religion he follows?
    I never made the argument at all. I take it from your question you have zero evidence to support your accusations against me.

    Have you ever corrected anyone who claimed he was a Muslim even while you've defended him herein?
    No. Do you correct everyone who says it? What possible relevance does that serve other than a sorry attempt to jack up false allegations you made towards me?

    Have you ever come to the President's defense and defended his claim of being a Christian besides herein?
    Actually yes. I've said repeatedly he is a Christian. Again, none of these questions supports your false statements about me in any way shape or form.

    If you have, then I apologize. If not, then making a single statement the President later decided to be baptized as a Christian just doesn't cut it. If you honestly believe that the religion of his birth doesn't automatically equate to the religion he now practises as a man, then you should defend him at every turn on this matter. If not and you shy away from defending him, then you're basically supporting the disengenious belief that he's a part of radical Islam. And that's not fair nor is it right.
    You made specific charges.

    You claimed I said Muslims are subverting our culture. A false charge

    You claimed I lumped in Obama with all "radical Muslims" Another false charge

    You then finally claimed I said I feared him being a Muslim. A third flase charge.

    Stop trying to back up your false charges with random questions that do not support your accusations.
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

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    Re: The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Isn't the empircal evidence of Franklyn Graham's statements, enough factual backing for you?
    No its not. Prove anything he said was false in the OP.

    Graham, as well as many other outspoken Evangelical Christians seem to know more about Islam than they do about the teachings of Christ.
    That still doesn't support your laughable charge you made earlier about the understanding of Islam. I posted the correct information. Did you even bother reading it?
    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    John Adams

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