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The Rev. Franklin Graham Says President Obama was 'Born a Muslim'

ScottD said:
New decree of ScottDism, when the first son of Texmaster is born, he shall automatically be considered a follower of the allmighty and powerful ScottD, and he will be until he denounces said religion.
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New decree on ScottD. Read up on the practices and teachings of a religion before commenting. You will save yourself considerable embarassment.
 
Laila said:
Being born to the father of one does not make anyone a Muslim.
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Actually it does yes.

Following the 5 pillars of Islam and 6 articles of faith makes someone a Muslim. Taking the declaration makes one a Muslim.
A chance of birth does not make one a Muslim.
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"Our Lord! Bestow on them your Mercy as they did bring me up when I
was small"

and they are the ones in every nation upon whom hope for the future
lies, and they are the youth of tomorrow upon whose shoulders the
call to Islaam is carried. Indeed Islaam has indeed elevated the
status of children and has laid down manners for their treatment
relating to all their affairs and each stage of their and from these
are the manners for welcoming their arrival in this life.

Our Prophet (SAW) was a living example, educating, cultivating the
Muslims upon the practices of Islaam, teaching them how to worship
their Lord in the best of ways. But a number of Muslims have strayed
from his pure teachings and have substituted that which is gold for
that which worthless...

"Call them (adopted sons) by (the names of) their fathers, that is
more just in the Sight of Allaah"

It is also allowed for the parents to allow others to name the child,
since our Prophet (SAW) used to name some of the children of his
Companions.

The name should carry a good and praiseworthy meaning as the
Messenger (SAW) said,

"On the Day of Resurrection, you will be called by your names and
your fathers names, so make your names good." (Abu Dawood)

It is recommended to call oneself a servant of Allaah (Abdullaah) or
the servant of any of the names of Allaah. Then it is recommended to
name a child after a prophet, due to the hadeeth,

"call yourselves by the names of the Prophets" (Abu Dawood)

and the hadeeth,

"a son was born to me this night and I called him after my forefather
Ibraaheem" (Muslim)

Then it is recommended to name the child after any pious person in
the hope that it will become like him/her. Then it is recommended to
name by any name which has good meaning.

It is forbidden to name a child with a name that denote servitude to
other than Allaah, for example Abd an-Nabi, Abd ar-Rasool etc, just
as it is forbidden to name them with names that are particular to the
Unbelievers like George, Michael, Susan etc.

I have yet to see you produce a single link claiming a child born to one or two Muslim parents isn't a Muslim.

Please support your claim with factual backing.

http://www.ummah.com/forum/showthre...orn-into-Islam-Qur-an-and-Sunnah-on-parenting
 
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Redress said:
How would you know? I mean, you are only a Muslim yourself...

Oh wait..
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So anyone of a faith understands that faith completely? thats your position?
 
texmaster said:
No one is denying that.

Try reading the story from the beginning next time.
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I have and IMHO you are on shaky ground. Essentially what you are attempting to argue is that every Muslim with a male father that has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior is still a Muslim. I doubt Jesus nor the teachings of the Bible would make such a rejection of faith in Jesus Christ.
 
texmaster said:
Actually it does yes.


"Our Lord! Bestow on them your Mercy as they did bring me up when I
was small"

The Newborn Child Born into Islam - Qur'an and Sunnah on parenting
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Actually. No it doesn't.
Stop making **** up because this routine of pretending to know what you are typing is getting boring.

Your link is useless.
Inside Islam one must follow the pillars of Islam.
Having a father who happened to be a Muslim is worthless, it does not protect one from hell.
One can be Muslim and have an entire Non Muslim family likewise one can come from a Muslim family and be a Non Muslim.
Islam is not a race, one has to believe in one God and also believe that Prophet Muhammad is God's Messenger to be called a Muslim. :roll:


The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said, "The believer who recites the Qur'an is like a citron whose fragrance is sweet and whose taste is delicious. A believer who does not recite the Qur'an is like a date-fruit which has no fragrance but has a sweet taste. The hypocrite who recites the Qur'an is like a colocynth whose fragrance is so sweet, but its taste is bitter. The hypocrite who does not recite the Qur'an is like basil which has no fragrance and its taste is bitter.''
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You can decipher what that means on your own. I'll wait for your no doubt copy and pasted response from Jihadwatch.
 
winston53660 said:
I have and IMHO you are on shaky ground. Essentially what you are attempting to argue is that every Muslim with a male father that has accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior is still a Muslim. I doubt Jesus nor the teachings of the Bible would make such a rejection of faith in Jesus Christ.
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The only reason Islam goes through the man is because in almost all Muslim societies, it follows a patriarchal line. Culture has dictated that family line goes through the males and religion just follows suit. Prophet Mohammed came from a time where this tribal thinking was common.

I have ran across far more Muslim men allowing their children to be raised outside of Islam than Muslim women who marry out but refuse to allow the children to follow the faith of the father. Which just goes to show the notion that a Muslim man is capable of keeping the household religion is groundless and inside US and Europe, Muslim women are beginning to marry out

It is Islamic tradition not law which dictates marriage rules.
But no doubt Tex and others have no idea and would like to continue thinking it is written in stone
 
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texmaster said:
So anyone of a faith understands that faith completely? thats your position?
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I know my religion because I study and follow it everyday.
Which is more than can be said about anyone else on this board who attempt to discuss Islam.

I just /facepalm whenever people who no doubt have never read a Qu'ran and hadiths start discussing what they think about Islam.
 
Laila said:
The only reason Islam goes through the man is because in almost all Muslim societies, it follows a patriarchal line. Culture has dictated that family line goes through the males and religion just follows suit. Prophet Mohammed came from a time where this tribal thinking was common.

I have ran across far more Muslim men allowing their children to be raised outside of Islam than Muslim women who marry out but refuse to allow the children to follow the faith of the father. Which just goes to show the notion that a Muslim man is capable of keeping the household religion is groundless and inside US and Europe, Muslim women are beginning to marry out

It is Islamic tradition not law which dictates marriage rules.
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The only reason texmaster is presenting this argument is that he thinks there is a political advantage in it. But every Christian knows once one accepts Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior you are a Christian and sins are absolved. It is one of the selling points of Christianity.
 
VanceMack said:
Hey! Thats MY take on blogger 'experts'!!!

For what it is worth...there is a WORLD of difference between the muslim faith practices observed in the US...and England...as opposed to much of the middle east. For example..in some places Laila would be stoned (you know...the BAD kind of stoned) for reading..as would be the person that taught her...
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Well of course there is a world of difference.
Inside the West, Islam has the opportunity and chance of being re interpreted and the liberal influences of the West has influence on Islam and its followers who make the religion what it is.
Not to mention education is significantly higher in the West than in ME :/

Sure I'd be stoned in Afghanistan. But I doubt it would be for reading.
 
Laila said:
Well of course there is a world of difference.
Inside the West, Islam has the opportunity and chance of being re interpreted and the liberal influences of the West has influence on Islam and its followers who make the religion what it is.
Not to mention education is significantly higher in the West than in ME :/

Sure I'd be stoned in Afghanistan. But I doubt it would be for reading.
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Maybe not 'just' for reading...
 
apdst said:
That's not even close to what he's referring to. Jews are a race, not a religion. Islam is a religion. That's why I can't understand how Libbos think that disliking Muslims is racism.
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Show me where Jews are genetically different that, say, Syrians or Jordanians. Or Palestinians, for that matter. YOU CAN CONVERT TO JUDAISM! For your reasoning to be true, anyone should be able to convert to African-American or East Asian. Jews are a seperate race, yet you can become one without undergoing genetic mutation?

STOP THE PRESSES!!!
 
texmaster said:
Actually it does yes.
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tex, I'm just sorta curious here. Laila has been studying Islam her whole life, yet you believe what she is saying is incorrect. There are only two conclusions that can be drawn here:
  1. She is ignorant, or
  2. she is lying.
Which of these do you think is the case here?
 
ScottD said:
I can't believe people still believe this. Obama went to a public school for the first half of his Elementary education, and he went to a Catholic School for the second half. He never went to an Islamic School.
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He went to a public school and a Catholic school in Indonesia which is 86% Muslim? No Islamic schooling? How odd.
 
danarhea said:
Here is the problem I have with Catholics asking the dead to intercede on their behalf. Only Christ rose from the dead (Maybe Enoch did too). Everybody else, Mary and the Saints included, sleep until the time of the end of days. So, basically, what is happening is that Catholics are asking dead people to intercede for them, which can't happen because they are..... uh..... dead.
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Actually, the New Testament makes it quite clear that the "souls of the just" are in Heaven.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Heaven
With God in heaven are likewise the souls of the just (2 Corinthians 5:1; Matthew 5:3, 12).
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Redress said:
How would you know? I mean, you are only a Muslim yourself...

Oh wait..
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True that, but how many non-Catholics come on here and presume to tell me what Catholicism is... :)

To the point, Laila is right of course... While I often disagree with her, I respect her because she is generally pretty upright in her beliefs and discussions with others...
 
Barbbtx said:
He went to a public school and a Catholic school in Indonesia which is 86% Muslim? No Islamic schooling? How odd.
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I can't believe we are going through this again. Public schools in Indonesia are SECULAR!!!! They are NOT religious. They have religious awareness classes that are part of the national curriculum. It includes awareness of ALL FIVE officially recognized religions of Indonesia (Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Catholicism, and Protestantism). Good grief. The ignornace masquarading as knowledge on this topic is truly frustrating. For the record, I did research on the education system there as a grad student, have spend considerable time in the country and have talked to many teachers in different kinds of schools relating to school curriculum and practices.

Obama was there in the time of Sukarno. The government at that time through the presidency of Megawati Sukarnoputri was secularism reign. President Sukarnoputri was pressured by Islamists but she held firm. Unfortunately, SBY, the current president, is not quite as firm as his predecessor. However, Obama was there decades ago, not in the present with Islamists beginning to get more sway (unfortunately) in that traditionally VERY tolerant country. Malaysia, with a far smaller Islamic population, is FAR MORE Islamic in practice than Indonesia has been.
 
ludahai said:
I can't believe we are going through this again. Public schools in Indonesia are SECULAR!!!! They are NOT religious. They have religious awareness classes that are part of the national curriculum. It includes awareness of ALL FIVE officially recognized religions of Indonesia (Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Catholicism, and Protestantism). Good grief. The ignornace masquarading as knowledge on this topic is truly frustrating. For the record, I did research on the education system there as a grad student, have spend considerable time in the country and have talked to many teachers in different kinds of schools relating to school curriculum and practices.

Obama was there in the time of Sukarno. The government at that time through the presidency of Megawati Sukarnoputri was secularism reign. President Sukarnoputri was pressured by Islamists but she held firm. Unfortunately, SBY, the current president, is not quite as firm as his predecessor. However, Obama was there decades ago, not in the present with Islamists beginning to get more sway (unfortunately) in that traditionally VERY tolerant country. Malaysia, with a far smaller Islamic population, is FAR MORE Islamic in practice than Indonesia has been.
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83% of Americans identify themselves as followers of Christ
yet we see that it is possible for muslim students in the USA public schools to maintain their islamic faith
why must the opposite circumstance be present in indonesia?
 
justabubba said:
83% of Americans identify themselves as followers of Christ
yet we see that it is possible for muslim students in the USA public schools to maintain their islamic faith
why must the opposite circumstance be present in indonesia?
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What many people don't seem to realize is that there are very strong Christian, Hindu, and Buddhist communities in Indonesia...
 
Laila said:
Actually. No it doesn't.
Stop making **** up because this routine of pretending to know what you are typing is getting boring.

Your link is useless.
Inside Islam one must follow the pillars of Islam.
Having a father who happened to be a Muslim is worthless, it does not protect one from hell.
One can be Muslim and have an entire Non Muslim family likewise one can come from a Muslim family and be a Non Muslim.
Islam is not a race, one has to believe in one God and also believe that Prophet Muhammad is God's Messenger to be called a Muslim. :roll:
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Your words mean nothing without factual evidence. If you think because you claim to be a Muslim that you don't have to produce evidence you are very mistaken.

Either back up your claims with evidence or don't bother at all.

Still waiting for you to prove a child born of Muslim parents is not a Muslim.

Back up your claims with factual evidence.
 
texmaster said:
Your words mean nothing without factual evidence. If you think because you claim to be a Muslim that you don't have to produce evidence you are very mistaken.

Either back up your claims with evidence or don't bother at all.

Still waiting for you to prove a child born of Muslim parents is not a Muslim.

Back up your claims with factual evidence.
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ok, here's proof

news-graphics-2007-_445498a.jpg
 
Here Tex.
I found you a YouTube video which I think demonstrates clearly for those unable to comprehend why Obama is not a Muslim.



Conspiracy theorists, crazy crazy people :roll:
 
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