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Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

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Yes. I would guess that most our our citizens who have died violently in this country have been killed by christians.

Were those murderers killing people for religious reasons, or because they were just dirt bag criminals who killed people for whatever rationale they had at the time?
 
But we weren't talking about Christian, Muslim, and Jewish relations, we were talking about religious tolerance.

No this entire discussion started because of Christian and Muslim relations.
That is until you popped up with Muslims and India.

We aren't talking about that region or group which had an entirely different relationship.

Under the Sharia of the Otttoman empire the testimony of a non-Muslim against a Muslim was viewed as worthless if they were even allowed to testify against the Muslim at all.

Bull****.

Being a dhimmi was not totally played out like that.
You're adopting an entirely hardline concept and applying it to the whole.

Again, Muslims were allowed to prosteltyze in the Ottoman Empire but non-Muslims were not. What exactly do you base your assertion that Dawa was not largely practiced in the Ottoman Empire? How do you think they got all of those people to convert?

Dawa was largely practiced in a particular region for the specific purpose of influencing their power base near Europe.
It was not a common practice through out the entire empire.

WTF? That's the Jizya tax, I said Devşirme which was the institutionalized practice within the Ottoman Empire of stealing Christian Children and converting them to Islam and using them to fill the ranks of their military. If that's not a forced conversion then I don't know what is. In fact that is not only an example of forced conversion but an example of ethnic cleansing as well.

It is not ethnic cleanings.
They were not trying to homogenize the people, quite the opposite was true for the empire.

Yes that particular example is forced conversion but it in no way does not mean that the weren't intolerant of Christians.
No matter how hard you might try to paint the picture for that to be true.


lol ya o.k. forcefully expelling entire Christian Communities from their homes and their lands and then forcefully transferring them from one part of the Empire to another is not an example of forced expulsion. :roll:

Expulsion from a country for religiously prejudice reasons, is not the same as creating an economic heterogeneous population.

You know this, you're being dishonest.

They expelled entire Christian communities from their homes and their lands, that is forced population transfer which is an example of ethnic cleansing.

Bull ****.
They did it for economic reasons, not to cleanse the land of Christians.

The Ottoman Empire did the exact same things you act like uprooting entire Christian Communities and engaging in forced population transfers is somehow better than kicking people out of the country. :roll:

Yes it is entirely different.
One is meant to harm a group, the other is meant for economic and civil structure reasons.


The historical record is something which you are completely ignoring in order to illustrate some fanciful age of Islamic tolerance that never existed.

It did exist, you pull up occasional examples of intolerance and cite those as truth for the whole empire.
You're argument is based on exceptions and not the rule.
 
It surprises me none that 20% of the country gets their education from Rush Limbaugh or FAUXNews.... Hate the game, don't hate the playa.... :mrgreen:

Supply links if you are going to try to pass this kind of BS.
 
21% of Americans still think George W Bush isn't a idiot. Hmmmm...

Thanks to Obama, that number is growing, everyday. The Dems are even calling for Bush to bail out Obama on the Ground Zero mosque issue.
 
People in this thread need to stop equating believing Obama is a muslim and being a birther, they are two completely different things.
Two totally different sides of the same stupid coin.
 
Were those murderers killing people for religious reasons, or because they were just dirt bag criminals who killed people for whatever rationale they had at the time?

Why do you keep moving the goalpost?
 
I didn't even use the word bigot. Perhaps you should actually read my posts before replying to them.

And in my reply to your original post, niether did I.

Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick
Are you serious? Do you really think people are claiming Obama is a Muslim and wanting him to come out as a Muslim just because they want him to be honest and that they don't themselves have extremely negative views of Muslims? I don't know what country you've been living in for the past 9 years...

My reply:

Originally Posted by Crunch
So in your mind, being a Muslim is bad?
 
Thanks to Obama, that number is growing, everyday. The Dems are even calling for Bush to bail out Obama on the Ground Zero mosque issue.

Can you give a quote other than a neo-con that said it?

Anyways, CNN this morning had poll results from the same people that did this poll and found that:
20% of Americans think Socialism is better than Capitalism
20% of Americans think we have made contact with alien life
20% of Americans believe Obama wasn't born in the United States

and then there is this:

The 9 Stupidest Things Americans Believe
 
What I find sad and somewhat disturbing is that people care.
I could give a flip about which god he prays to. Policy actually affects me.

This is like arguing over which sports team he follows.
 
Again cite specific examples. And why would Islamic terrrorists care about the U.S. installing puppet dictators that were not from Muslim countries? Anyways, the idea that Islamists give a damn about democracy is laughable. They aren't anti-tyranny they are anti-secularism.

I don't have access to top secret information, but anybody other than the hopelessly naive would understand that we have intelligence operations that operate throughout this region and the world. Just because they don't want democracy doesn't mean they welcome dictators who rape and torture innocent people.

We didn't install any of those people they came to power through their own means, though the U.S. may have supported them to various degrees after they were already in power.

So you're saying we didn't install Efrain Montt? Well, this says we did. So do numerous other sources.

No we didn't. Noriega manipulated U.S. foreign policy to suit his own agenda and the CIA turned a blind eye to his drug trafficing but we didn't install him, we in fact ousted him from power.

Oh, we didn't install Noriega? He was officially contracted by the CIA in the 60s and still worked for them in 1983 when he rose to power. Yes we ousted him, but he was working for us when he became President... you don't think that's proof that there was direct US involvement? And you're saying the CIA turned a blind eye to his drug trafficking? We proposed paying him one million dollars to kill Nicaraguan insurgents for us. That's a little more than turning a blind eye.

Pinochet was ordered by the Chilean Chamber of Deputies and Chilean Supreme Court to oust Allende from power for his numerous violattions of the Constitution. There is no evidence demonstrating that the U.S. directly supported the Pinochet coup.

Right, there's no proof of direct involvement. Only documents proving that the government was actively trying to prevent Allende from having power and massive financial interest from ITT who alledgedly funded the coup in part. And Nixon said this 3 years before the coup: "Make the economy scream [in Chile to] prevent Allende from coming to power or to unseat him." You can believe what you want to, I think the picture is pretty clear.

With the exception of Turkey and Iran none of those have anything to do with the Muslim world whatsoever and Iran isn't even the same type of Islam that attacked us on 9-11.

We only know so much. If America has consistently backed ruthless dictators for strategic reasons, they are certainly doing the same thing now. We engage in these tactics and the people who are affected by them lash back at us. That's how it works. There's no excuse for killing innocent people, which is why I find Bin Laden's actions to be unacceptable, but it's also why I am quick to condemn the United States for their unethical actions. You willingly ignore the latter and that's why your opinions are not credible.

They didn't own the land, they did not even have the concept of land ownership, they were nomadic, there was not a single permanent settlment in North America at the time the Europeans arrived.

You're right, that makes it ok to kill them and declare the land ours. And hell, most of them will die from disease... the diseases that the Europeans brought over with them during westward expansion. But that's not our fault either. If they didn't want to get sick, they shouldn't have been on the land we wanted.

Really? When did the U.S. ever forcefully convert anyone? When did the British use forced conversions?

Anyways this is a very good description of the Arabization of the lands conquered by Islam.

Yes, we did force conversions. Most of that information is off-topic, but we definitely forced Native Americans to "Americanize" themselves and even had the official Office of Indian Affairs, founded in 1824, that handled such matters.

You can rewrite history, but I regret going to all this trouble to try to show you how naive and ignorant your statements are. You won't be persuaded by truth. You think that America has never installed a puppet dictator, Muslim terrorists are driven solely by religion and have no political basis for their hatred of us, and you even believe that taking land from the Native Americans was justified. I don't know if you're naive or ignorant, but your comments display a nice mix of the two.
 
Can you give a quote other than a neo-con that said it?

Anyways, CNN this morning had poll results from the same people that did this poll and found that:
20% of Americans think Socialism is better than Capitalism
20% of Americans think we have made contact with alien life
20% of Americans believe Obama wasn't born in the United States

and then there is this:

The 9 Stupidest Things Americans Believe

Alotta folks believed in Hope-n-Change, too. I bet you still do, huh?
 
I don't have access to top secret information, but anybody other than the hopelessly naive would understand that we have intelligence operations that operate throughout this region and the world. Just because they don't want democracy doesn't mean they welcome dictators who rape and torture innocent people.

Saddam Hussein held power for 30 years. The Taliban has many supporters in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Who's the Muslim cat that runs the show in Sudan? He's being propped up by the Chinese.

It totally amazes me, how people try to justify terrorist attacks on the United States that result in the death of American citizens.
 
Why don't you answer the question?

Because you started with this nonsense,

"Americans are waking up to reality more and more, everyday."

and now your on,

"Were those murderers killing people for religious reasons, or because they were just dirt bag criminals who killed people for whatever rationale they had at the time?"

The fact is that you seem to have the problem of making stupid comments, with nothing to back them up but your own prejudice.
 
Because you started with this nonsense,

"Americans are waking up to reality more and more, everyday."

and now your on,

"Were those murderers killing people for religious reasons, or because they were just dirt bag criminals who killed people for whatever rationale they had at the time?"

The fact is that you seem to have the problem of making stupid comments, with nothing to back them up but your own prejudice.

I'm only responding to the comments others have made, so perhaps I'm not the one making stupid comments.

Using criminal behavior in the United States to justify terrorist attacks isn't a real bright statement.

Would you care to answer the question? Or, do you still maintain that Muslims are more tolerant of other religions?
 
I'm only responding to the comments others have made, so perhaps I'm not the one making stupid comments.

Using criminal behavior in the United States to justify terrorist attacks isn't a real bright statement.

Would you care to answer the question?

I'm not answering any of your questions until you go back and admit that you were wrong in a lot of instances.

The first being that Obama is not a Muslim.

Or, do you still maintain that Muslims are more tolerant of other religions?

I didn't say that.
 
I'm not answering any of your questions until you go back and admit that you were wrong in a lot of instances.

The first being that Obama is not a Muslim.



I didn't say that.

I haven't been wrong about anything and your efforts to prove me wrong were a total failure.
 
It matters if they are lying about it.

In all honesty, how would anyone really know? That's why I would argue we shouldn't put much stock in anyone's claim along these lines. A dishonest person can be very convincing. So, i think we should just not concern ourselves with something so personal. Better to focus on things we can measure IMHO.
 
WTF!!! Racist or Not, How many Muslim goes to a Christian worship service for 20 years? USe your brain for once. Lets get the facts right, people were calling him a Muslim before he even took oath. I'm saying it now, anyone who thinks that he not a citizen or he is a Muslim is either 2 things:

A complete dumb *** or a racist a**hole !!!!

This is getting ridiculous...
Lets see...
Muslim Name
Muslim Father, athiest Mother
Muslim adoptive Father
Schooled in Indonesia
Yep,that's all the proof we need. He's a Christian for sure.
 
Lets see...
Muslim Name
Muslim Father, athiest Mother
Muslim adoptive Father
Schooled in Indonesia
Yep,that's all the proof we need. He's a Christian for sure.
Religion is a genetic trait inherited from one's parents? Interesting!
 
In all honesty, how would anyone really know? That's why I would argue we shouldn't put much stock in anyone's claim along these lines. A dishonest person can be very convincing. So, i think we should just not concern ourselves with something so personal. Better to focus on things we can measure IMHO.
According to the Christian Bible, the only Person who can possibly know that is God.
 
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