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Thread: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I don't think she said they were leaders in the church, only that they were Christians and leaders.

    Gallileo was a devout Catholic (and the Church didn't even have it out for him, only Bellarmine did).

    Newton was one of the very first to postulate that the Earth was 6000 years old based on the Bible.

    Einstein wasn't Christian, obviously, but he was religious.

    Franklin, Washington, and Jefferson were Christians, whatever qualifiers you want to put on it.
    Not sure what you're talking about, but I was saying there were lots of educated early Christians and this is where a lot of the great scientific discoveries came from. Priests were educated, too, as an afterthought of mine to show that they had to be educated to become a priest.

    Martin Luther was a lawyer and some such as was he a priest. But the church educates all their priests and not just in religion.
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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    [QUOTE=Marilyn Monroe;1058936592]It's always been Christian leadership and brains. I don't think it was luck. Where have all the great minds and inventions come from?

    All the Catholic leaders were highly educated. Not just anybody can be a priest.

    In other words, it ain't gonna happen for Muslims.
    Just so as to not be misunderstood, I believe Muslims can do anything anybody can do, but since they didn't have the one authority it didn't happen for them in the past, but nowadays it can and probably will. Have to wait and see. We know they want to go nuclear, so time will tell.
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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    Wasn't the part about the priests in a different paragraph. Did you get the point? Lots of very educated Christians. It wasn't just luck.
    Yes the availability of literacy through the monks was a driving factor in their ability to become educated but this wasn't due to religious teachings. It was due to the Church's want to exand their power. You could not believe a word of the Holy Bible and still become educated and be labeled a Christian. Most of these people studied science and propsed ideas considered blasphemous by church officials.

    Europeans in general have been more advanced for two thousand years thanks to Roman expansion ( under paganism for a large portion of time ). They needed to be advanced to be more effienct in war for territory expansion and building their large cities. The Chinese and Japaense cultures were also very advanced and for a longer period of time.

    The ME countries have a major issue with division of power. Untill those with power (The clerics) wish to extend it to the majority of people or those people wish toriseup and take it from their religious leaders, like Christians did decades ago, nothing will change.

    My point is Christianity (the beliefs) didn't drive education. The increased availability of education and literacy did. Thankfully the Church leaders saw the value in educated priests for expanding their religion. This led to many educated people all over Europe and increased the literacy levels of the populace allowing for the scientist of the day to become scientists.
    Last edited by Gibberish; 08-22-10 at 03:43 PM.
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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Are you saying you have already read everything he just aimed you at, or are you operating from a place of willful ignorance.
    You're a rude lady, madame.

    The reason christians may have 'advanced' is because of those of us who are not christians. Don't give your religion credit where it deserves none. Secularism is everything you have to be happy for. Also, read a book on islam or something. Please. At least wikipedia. Dont generalise the anti-woman laws of a few arab countries for 1.5 million muslims.
    Does this make sense to you? Secularism is everything I have to be happy for. I'm not reading anything this person tells me to read, when he didn't even make sense, and may not really know what he's talking about. He sounds angry, as do you. Maybe you should take a break.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    It's always been Christian leadership and brains. I don't think it was luck. Where have all the great minds and inventions come from?

    All the Catholic leaders were highly educated. Not just anybody can be a priest.

    In other words, it ain't gonna happen for Muslims.
    I don’t believe that religion has ever been the engine of invention. We call it the Enlightenment because people were being enlightened that the Catholic dogma about secular matters was wrong. This enlightenment came about as a consequence of commerce, not because of religious scholarship. I think that you would be hard pressed to find examples where religious belief drove technological or social advancement. What has tended to be the case is that when the beliefs of the dominant religion begins to conflict with economic, social, or political pressures; either the religion morphs or it is replaced with a new religion (or splinter religion). Too often, religion is the tool of oppression and stagnation not the force for invention.

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
    Yes the availability of literacy through the monks was a driving factor in their ability to become educated but this wasn't due to religious teachings. It was due to the Church's want to exand their power. You could not believe a word of the Holy Bible and still become educated and be labeled a Christian. Most of these people studied science and propsed ideas considered blasphemous by church officials.

    Europeans in general have been more advanced for two thousand years thanks to Roman expansion ( under paganism for a large portion of time ). They needed to be advanced to be more effienct in war for territory expansion and building their large cities. The Chinese and Japaense cultures were also very advanced and for a longer period of time.

    The ME countries have a major issue with division of power. Untill those with power (The clerics) wish to extend it to the majority of people or those people wish toriseup and take it from their religious leaders, like Christians did decades ago, nothing will change.
    Ok, forget about the priests being educated. I was really not saying they did any inventing, just that they weren't dumb. They didn't do snake dances. It's a joke! They did do exorcisms though and Baptisms, which is really an exorcism.

    The inventions did come from Europe, and of course America which used to have a lot of Christians when these bigtime Industrial Age inventions came to be. Jews have also been instrumental in science and research.
    "It's not that I'm afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens." Woody Allen.

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by zip98053 View Post
    I don’t believe that religion has ever been the engine of invention. We call it the Enlightenment because people were being enlightened that the Catholic dogma about secular matters was wrong. This enlightenment came about as a consequence of commerce, not because of religious scholarship. I think that you would be hard pressed to find examples where religious belief drove technological or social advancement. What has tended to be the case is that when the beliefs of the dominant religion begins to conflict with economic, social, or political pressures; either the religion morphs or it is replaced with a new religion (or splinter religion). Too often, religion is the tool of oppression and stagnation not the force for invention.
    The Catholic church learned long ago it needs to morph with the populace to stay relevant and in power. As it should. Religion is mostly a belief system based on interpreation and interpretations can change and so the church should mold these changes into their core beliefs.

    Nothing good can come for them if they are fighting with those they count on to survive.
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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    The topic is part of the propaganda the ruler of this country to fool the people.

    Obama picked up to be president to show US is a democratic country. There is no racism, see, we have a black president. This is especially needed after US started its Mid-east war.

    Same tactic to push up the debate of Mosque in Ground Zero. See, how tolerance we are even they attacked us, we still build a mosque for them. This is especially needed when they are preparing another war - war on Iran.

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    You're really digging aren't you? We live in a free country, go find this freedom in Muslim countries.
    Then why are you against their freedom of religion? Are you saying they are free to worship - just only where you want them to?

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Marilyn Monroe View Post
    It's always been Christian leadership and brains. I don't think it was luck. Where have all the great minds and inventions come from?

    All the Catholic leaders were highly educated. Not just anybody can be a priest.

    In other words, it ain't gonna happen for Muslims.
    Please read, my dear:

    Inventions in medieval Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So, things like Algebra, Chemistry, and Astronomy? Those seem a little vital to you? Thank a Muslim for that. Oh, and for lipstick.

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