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Thread: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    I suspect you are wrong, but you are welcome to try and document that claim.
    It would be much easier if I had his official IQ score...it looks like the speculation online is that he is sitting somewhere near 150. I can assure you that the majority of people with an IQ that high are indeed non-believers.
    I use a lot of satire and sarcasm so keep that in mind when reading my posts.

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    It would be much easier if I had his official IQ score...it looks like the speculation online is that he is sitting somewhere near 150.
    This assumes that IQ is actually an accurate measurement of intelligence.

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustachio View Post
    I don't have access to top secret information, but anybody other than the hopelessly naive would understand that we have intelligence operations that operate throughout this region and the world. Just because they don't want democracy doesn't mean they welcome dictators who rape and torture innocent people.
    lol yes the Islamists are real big on the whole anti-torture thing. I mean we only have to look at any country in which they have ever come to power to determine that, Sudan and Taliban controlled Afghanistan were big on humanitarian issues. But you're right U.S. support for coups in central America and Shia Iran caused 19 Sunni Islamists to fly planes into buildings. The mental gymnastics you people go through in order to blame the victim and alleviate responsibility from the Islamists are truly astounding. 10 10 10

    So you're saying we didn't install Efrain Montt? Well, this says we did. So do numerous other sources.
    The portion of your quote I was responding to was:

    Honduras (Roberto Cordova) and Taiwan (Chiang Kai-shek), El Salvador (Cristiani), South Vietnam (Ngo Dinh Diem), and in Africa -- Liberia (Samuel Doe), Zaire (Mobuto Sese Seko) and Morocco (Hassan II).
    Nope Montt not listed. And the guy who Montt replaced wasn't exactly a saint either.

    Oh, we didn't install Noriega? He was officially contracted by the CIA in the 60s and still worked for them in 1983 when he rose to power. Yes we ousted him, but he was working for us when he became President... you don't think that's proof that there was direct US involvement? And you're saying the CIA turned a blind eye to his drug trafficking? We proposed paying him one million dollars to kill Nicaraguan insurgents for us. That's a little more than turning a blind eye.
    What does killing Nicaraguan insurgents have to do with drug trafficking? We can support one and not the other.

    We didn't install him, he rose through the ranks of his own government.

    And again wtf does this have to due with Islamist terrorism?

    Are the cited goals of the Islamists to stop drug trafficking? Somebody better inform the Taliban.


    Right, there's no proof of direct involvement. Only documents proving that the government was actively trying to prevent Allende from having power and massive financial interest from ITT who alledgedly funded the coup in part. And Nixon said this 3 years before the coup: "Make the economy scream [in Chile to] prevent Allende from coming to power or to unseat him." You can believe what you want to, I think the picture is pretty clear.
    Yep still not evidence of direct U.S. support for the coup plotters. Again unless you are asserting that the CIA ran the Chilean Champe of Deputies and the Chilean Supreme Court then we were not responsible for the coup, because Pinochet was ordered by them not us to oust Allende for his numerous crimes against the Chilean Constitution in his bid to establish a totalitarian Marxiist state on the Cuban model.

    And again wtf does this have to do with Islamist terrorism? Are Islamists now pro-Communist?


    We only know so much. If America has consistently backed ruthless dictators for strategic reasons, they are certainly doing the same thing now. We engage in these tactics and the people who are affected by them lash back at us.
    Except not a single one of those places with the exception of perhaps Turkey has ANYTHING to do with the members of the Islamist movement that we are currently at war with. In fact it your argument collapses upon itself, because by your logic we should be witnessing Chilean, Guetamalan, Honduran, etc terrorist attacks against the U.S. and her interests.

    That's how it works. There's no excuse for killing innocent people, which is why I find Bin Laden's actions to be unacceptable, but it's also why I am quick to condemn the United States for their unethical actions. You willingly ignore the latter and that's why your opinions are not credible.
    You're right, that makes it ok to kill them and declare the land ours.
    We didn't kill them, disease did. We homesteaded the land which is the only way to legitimately engage in original appropriation of property.

    And hell, most of them will die from disease... the diseases that the Europeans brought over with them during westward expansion. But that's not our fault either. If they didn't want to get sick, they shouldn't have been on the land we wanted.
    The outbreak of a foreign virus isn't the same thing as systematic genocide.


    Yes, we did force conversions. Most of that information is off-topic, but we definitely forced Native Americans to "Americanize" themselves and even had the official Office of Indian Affairs, founded in 1824, that handled such matters.
    Encouraging Americanization isn't the same thing as forced religious conversion.

    You can rewrite history, but I regret going to all this trouble to try to show you how naive and ignorant your statements are. You won't be persuaded by truth. You think that America has never installed a puppet dictator, Muslim terrorists are driven solely by religion and have no political basis for their hatred of us,
    Apparently you think that Muslim extremists are driven by U.S. support for coups in central America.

    and you even believe that taking land from the Native Americans was justified.
    You can't take what isn't owned.

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    It would be much easier if I had his official IQ score...it looks like the speculation online is that he is sitting somewhere near 150. I can assure you that the majority of people with an IQ that high are indeed non-believers.
    OK, please document this.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    To be clear, he was born a Muslim according to Muslim law.

    -- Any children born to the wife will be considered Muslim. They will usually also be considered citizens of the father's country.

    -- The husband's permission is always needed for the children to leave an Islamic country despite the fact that the children will also have, for example, American citizenship. Foreign immigration authorities can be expected to enforce these regulations. The ability of U.S. consular officers to aid an American woman who wishes to leave the country with her children is very limited.


    International Divorce - Islamic Family Law

    That doesn't mean he is now but his past history, some key remarks, his refusal to pick a church and attend on a regular basis fuel the rumor.

    My personal opinion is that he is nothing in true life and joined the church and was baptized in it because he needed political backing. His apparent "catering" to Muslims stems from his history of living abroad amongst Muslims and his father's Muslim family.
    Do we even know that he WAS baptized or is that just another thing we must take his word for?

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Without reading through 35 pages (and counting) which likely consists mainly of nothing more than petty bickering, I'd just like to add my 2-cents worth:

    1. If you're judging the President's religious faith on the fact that his father was a Muslim and that his step-father was also a Muslim, as such, both raised Jr within the Muslim faith, then I, too am a Muslim because my mother, not my father, was my spiritual mentor growing up. Of course, she also drug my siblings and I off to a Catholic church, a Baptist church and a Christian church all by the time I was 14. So if we are to base our religious preference on our parent's religious association(s), WTF does that make me (besides mixed up religiously as a child)? I understand the concept behind religious upbrining within the Muslim faith - Islam is passed from father to son - but it is my opinion that most Americans know nothing of this and are instead basing their believe of the President's religious faith on may outward impressions, i.e., the fact that he as raised by a Muslim father and step-father, that he attended a Muslim school abroad as a child, and he hasn't (as far as I know) publicly identified which church he and his family attends.

    2. I am a Christian. From my teenaged years (14 or so) until I was an adult (39), I shyed away from all religions. I just felt like I couldn't trust any of them. But one day after an auto accident, I choose to try to live my life following the Christian faith. However, as an adult and since becoming a Christian, I've also studied the Qu'ran. I stayed away from the Muslim faith as a child because I saw how screwed up the religion made my mother* (may she rest in peace; she died last year of cancer), but after 9/11 I wanted to know more about Islam and how some Muslims thought and why "they" did what they did. Notice I said "they", meaning I lumped all Muslims together at the time. It wasn't until I sat down with another Muslim who provided me a copy of the English translation of the Qu'ran did I realize my error. Just as with many Americans today, I automatically assumed most Muslims believed the same way and that's not true. The person who gave me my copy of the Qu'ran strongly condemned what the terrorist did that day including what was taking place in Afghanastan. (He brought alot of stuff to my attention that was happening over there long before the media began reporting on it.)

    3. My studies of the Qu'ran not only helped me to better understand the Muslim faith, but also to better understand how some Muslims have subverted Islam which is a religion of peace. My own Christain faith has also been strengthen as a result of my study.

    4. Many people would be overwhelmingly surprised to learn that Christianity and Islam share many of the same characteristics. In fact, the God of Noah, Abraham, Issac, Joseph, Jacob, Elijah, Moses, Isiah, David, Soloman, Mary and Jesus is the same GOD. Muslims call Him Allah; Christians call Him Jehovah; Jews call him Jewah. But He is the same GOD. We all just go about practising our faith differently somewhat.

    5. Christianity and Islam both teach of love and unity toward your fellow man.

    6. Both religions have had their own "holy wars" throughout the history of early man.

    7. The only things I've found that are drastically different between Islam and Christianity are:

    a) Christians believe in redemtion, that one can repent of their sins and find forgiveness through the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

    b) Islam believes that you carry your sins with you and that you become closer to Allah (God) by continued prayer and subjugation to His will and not your own. But that, too, is a tenant of Christianity - doing God's will.

    'Seak first to understand and then be understood."

    Do I believe Pres. Obama is a Muslim? No, but I do believe he has a very unique understanding of Islam from his upbringing, and as the leaders of the free world he is in a unique position to be a bridge of understanding and enlightenment between the Christian and Muslim worlds and can be a Uniter this country desperately needs. You question this need? Look at what building this Islamic Community Center w/a Mosque is doing to this country right now!

    *My mother was a very spiritual woman. Before her death, she and I had a long discussion concerning her faith and the troubles I believe she had with her choosen religion when I was a child. The only rationale she gave me was that she was searching for something, to fill a void that was in her life at the time. In the end, she was a Christian. She died knowing she was a child of God. Still, with what's happening in the world today, in our nation today, I ask myself does it really matter what religion you place your faith in as long as in the end you still come to the place God has made for you?
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-20-10 at 07:14 PM.

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by BCR View Post
    It would be much easier if I had his official IQ score...it looks like the speculation online is that he is sitting somewhere near 150. I can assure you that the majority of people with an IQ that high are indeed non-believers.
    serious lol @ the idea that Obama's IQ is 150
    double lol @ the idea that it must be so because of speculation online.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Kinda seems that more Muslims are killed by these extremists than non-Muslims by a large large margin.
    All the more reason they should come out in large, large numbers condemning the extremists.

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    No this entire discussion started because of Christian and Muslim relations.
    That is until you popped up with Muslims and India.

    We aren't talking about that region or group which had an entirely different relationship.
    Well Christians suffered numerous pogroms during the Islamic Imperialist expansions.

    Bull****.

    Being a dhimmi was not totally played out like that.
    You're adopting an entirely hardline concept and applying it to the whole.
    Bull****, under Sharia law Dhimmi's testimony was worthless against a Muslim.


    Dawa was largely practiced in a particular region for the specific purpose of influencing their power base near Europe.
    It was not a common practice through out the entire empire.
    Dawa is Fard "duty" for all Muslims and yet we're expected to believe that Dawa wasn't practiced in the Ottoman Empire? Exactly what are you basing this assertion on?

    It is not ethnic cleanings.
    They were not trying to homogenize the people, quite the opposite was true for the empire.
    As defined by the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of Genocide it is:

    ...any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

    (a) Killing members of the group;
    (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
    (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
    (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
    (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

    Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article II
    Yes that particular example is forced conversion but it in no way does not mean that the weren't intolerant of Christians.
    No matter how hard you might try to paint the picture for that to be true.
    lol, yes stealing Christian children and forcing them to convert to Islam = tolerance.


    Expulsion from a country for religiously prejudice reasons, is not the same as creating an economic heterogeneous population.
    Ya I guess that's why they singled out Christian communities.


    You know this, you're being dishonest.
    [/quote]

    Forcible transfer of populations is considered a crime against humanity. I guess uprooting entire Christian communities from their homes and their lands is not forced expulsion in your book.

    Bull ****.
    They did it for economic reasons, not to cleanse the land of Christians.
    Economic reasons? And what possible economic reason was there to cleanse Christians from their homes and their lands? And even if there were economic reasons to ethnically cleanse Christians from their homes and their lands, they still ethnically cleansed Christians from their homes and their lands.

    Yes it is entirely different.
    One is meant to harm a group, the other is meant for economic and civil structure reasons.
    Yes uprooting entire Christian communities from their homes and their lands and forcefully transferring across the empire was done with the best intentions.


    It did exist, you pull up occasional examples of intolerance and cite those as truth for the whole empire.
    You're argument is based on exceptions and not the rule.
    No my argument is based on the fact that you are asserting that the Ottoman Empire had more religious tolerance than Christian Europe even though the Ottoman Empire perpetrated the exact same crimes which you are asserting made Christian Europe less tolerant. And these were not exceptions to the rule, this was the rule, it was state policy to steal Christian children and convert them to Islam for centuries, it was state policy to execute heretics (apostates) for centuriies, and it was state policy to ethnically cleanse entire Christian communities from their homes and their lands for centuries.

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    Re: Nearly 1 in 5 Americans Thinks Obama Is Muslim, Survey Shows

    Quote Originally Posted by Barbbtx View Post
    All the more reason they should come out in large, large numbers condemning the extremists.
    Which, as has been documented in this thread, they have.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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