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Thread: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Funny how the First Amendment matters to some of you when it harms out Military. Shocking? Not really, pathetic? Yes.

    This isn't a First Amendment discussion.
    This is a First Amendment issue.
    It's sad you don't care about it when it's speech you don't like.
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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    That makes no sense whatsoever.

    These folks who so narrowly read the First Amendment always amuse me. Imagine if they read the Second Amendment this narrowly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dissent, Judge Jay Bybee
    Consistent with the principle set forth in New York Times, in Garrison v. Louisiana, 379 U.S. 64 (1964), that “the knowingly false statement and the false statement made with reckless disregard of the truth, do not enjoy constitutional protection.”
    http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...7/08-50345.pdf

    Generally speaking... Intentionally misrepresenting hard facts for your own personal material gain has not been protected by the First Amendment....
    Last edited by Areopagitican; 08-19-10 at 01:57 AM.

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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    That makes no sense whatsoever.

    These folks who so narrowly read the First Amendment always amuse me. Imagine if they read the Second Amendment this narrowly.
    Of course you don't get it. You see the end justifying the means. Society has both a NEED and the RIGHT to protect certain institutions, we do this through laws. If this were a case of a man bad mouthing MOH winners, I would agree with you 100%. It is not, it is an issue of fraud, of harm to society. Free Speech is a bumbersticker argument that only sounds good till you think about the matter.
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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthy View Post
    This isn't just lying. It's perpetrating a fraud, a scam on others of the most despicable kind.
    For which remedies are typically civil, not criminal...
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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    Moderator's Warning:
    Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional Threads merged.




    Fraud (which is a specifically defined crime) is already against the law.
    Perjury is already against the law.

    If someone lies about their military service in the course of committing fraud or perjury, it's still a crime.
    Where is perjury being committed here? Even with the fraud, is he gaining something at the expense of someone else as a result of this misrepresentation?
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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The logic behind it was what really got me. They called fraud and perjury free speech issues, maybe if they were to do a little research they would find that defamation, fraud, perjury, and immenently dangerous language is outside any protections of the first amendment of the U.S. constitution. Obscenity is somewhat protected, as are "lesser" forms of speech, but deliberate falsehood is not. I just cannot wrap my head around the decision.
    Defamation against whom?
    How is this perjury?
    What benefit is he unlawfully gaining from others as a result of this "fraud"?
    What is immenently dangerous" about this language?
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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Where is perjury being committed here? Even with the fraud, is he gaining something at the expense of someone else as a result of this misrepresentation?
    What would someone be "gaining something at the expense of someone else" (to use your words) by screaming 'fire' in a crowded theater? Your attempt at nullifying his argument is, in my opinion, factitious. Oliver Holmes Jr.'s preeminent note on the subject maintains that the right to free speech ends where deliberate misrepresentation of concrete fact begins.

    Link to note: Schenck v. United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Where is perjury being committed here? Even with the fraud, is he gaining something at the expense of someone else as a result of this misrepresentation?
    My apologies for not being clear, that was what I was getting at.

    The poster before me had argued that this decision would allow perjury or fraud. Both would remain illegal even is this decision is upheld.
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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    This is a First Amendment issue.
    It's sad you don't care about it when it's speech you don't like.
    How did you feel when Don Imus called those basketball chicks, "nappy headed ho's"? Prolly didn't dig it too much, huh?

    Just putting things into perspective for you...

    ...anyway, this is nothing less than legalizing fraud, no matter how much legal mumbo-jumbo you attach to it. This ruling allows assholes like Jesse McAdams to tell their lies and get away, scot free.

    All this ruling did, was lower the standard so all the assholes in the world can dish out their bull****, and get away with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    How did you feel when Don Imus called those basketball chicks, "nappy headed ho's"? Prolly didn't dig it too much, huh?

    Just putting things into perspective for you...

    ...anyway, this is nothing less than legalizing fraud, no matter how much legal mumbo-jumbo you attach to it. This ruling allows assholes like Jesse McAdams to tell their lies and get away, scot free.

    All this ruling did, was lower the standard so all the assholes in the world can dish out their bull****, and get away with it.
    Actually I thought Don Imus's comment was taking out of context, and the whole thing was overblown. It was a joke, and I kind of found it funny.

    It's a free speech issue not matter what. Unless you wanna crack down on the birthers as well.
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