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Thread: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    If he extracted just one vote from his opposition with this lie, that is real harm done to his opposition.

    How much did it cost the city to hold new elections after he was tossed for this lie?.... again, real harm.
    So anytime a politician lies about something to get elected, we can throw them in jail?
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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So anytime a politician lies about something to get elected, we can throw them in jail?
    That'd be nice!

    Oh - I'm all for that
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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So anytime a politician lies about something to get elected, we can throw them in jail?
    Let's do exactly that, every single time. Maybe it'll keep a few of 'em honest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    That'd be nice!

    Oh - I'm all for that
    Ditto!
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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So anytime a politician lies about something to get elected, we can throw them in jail?
    I'd vote for that.
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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Well, every politician who has called Obama a socialist would be in jail, because that's a lie. What's that, Boehner? You don't think it's a lie? Well, I do. You're going to have to defend yourself in a criminal court case! If you manage to be found not guilty, I'll just comb over Media Matters and find some other thing you said that isn't true. Back to court you go!

    See how this might get out of hand?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Gotta disagree Coronado, in these particular cases I don't think losing a cushy job is sufficient punishment for defrauding people. I as a private sector licensed professional don't simply lose commission if I commit fraud while presenting to clients or potential clients, I face fines and possible imprisonment because of not only the damage economically that I can do but the violation of public trust as well.

    Violations of public trust as far as I'm concerned is a very valid issue because not only is the fraudster's actions detrimental to their own reputation but the reputation of the entire profession because these stories tend to make the news. In that respect the entire political climate is cheapened every time someone is caught for egregious violations of public trust. This is why I come down so hard on this particular case as well as the fact that the military was slapped in the face by this scumbag.

    EDIT- As pertaining to paragraph 1. Not only do I face fines and imprisonment, I can also be sued into oblivion.
    But all of these things are already covered by law. If it's fraud, then it's fraud. What if he'd lied about his college degree? Same thing? Why is lying about military service something worse than that?

    We don't need more laws in this case. What you maintain is the exact equivalent of Hate Crimes Legislation.

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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    So anytime a politician lies about something to get elected, we can throw them in jail?
    Well, that would lead to anarchy, because it would lead to having no elected officials anywhere. I mean. Additionally, both sides would just spend time pointing out how their opponent lied (and could easily factually prove things to be false or at least partially untrue).

    This is why lying can NEVER be against the law. You would have to parse everything down to its minutest point and eliminate all opinion to prove something is a lie or is true.

    For instance, I could easily say that if you tell me God created the Earth that you are lying. Because God knows you can't prove it factually.

    If the lie reaches the point of being provable fraud, fine. But, once again, that's already covered in current law.

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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Well, every politician who has called Obama a socialist would be in jail, because that's a lie. What's that, Boehner? You don't think it's a lie? Well, I do. You're going to have to defend yourself in a criminal court case! If you manage to be found not guilty, I'll just comb over Media Matters and find some other thing you said that isn't true. Back to court you go!

    See how this might get out of hand?
    That's an opinion, actually.
    And opinions are fine.

    Lies and opinions are *very* different - lies are when you take what *is* truth (Obama is the President) and rewrite it (Obama is not our President) . . . opinions don't factor into facts/truth/lie at all.

    So, no, no one should be punished for their opinions - nor sarcasm or satire. . . but outright lies, yes.

    If someone's can't do it on the witness stand they shouldn't do it from the bully pulpit, either.
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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    That's an opinion, actually.
    It's not an opinion, actually, it's a matter of fact. What constitutes socialism is not a matter of opinion, it is a matter of definition. It is empirically ascertainable whether Obama's political platform is not "socialistic" or not, hence if the platform does not meet the definition of socialism, it is a lie to ascribe it to him.

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    Re: Appeals court: Stolen Valor Act unconstitutional

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    That's an opinion, actually.
    And opinions are fine.

    Lies and opinions are *very* different - lies are when you take what *is* truth (Obama is the President) and rewrite it (Obama is not our President) . . . opinions don't factor into facts/truth/lie at all.

    So, no, no one should be punished for their opinions - nor sarcasm or satire. . . but outright lies, yes.

    If someone's can't do it on the witness stand they shouldn't do it from the bully pulpit, either.
    Words mean things.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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