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Thread: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

  1. #71
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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Laila View Post
    I don't give a **** what self appointed idiots think. Muslims one source of authority that is above everything and anything is the Qu'ran.

    Anyone who did RE in school would know that. That is basic Islam 101.
    LOL at only reading hadiths.
    You DO realise not every Muslim accept hadiths?

    You didn't answer my question.
    Truly ironic that the religion you espouse has ACTIVE sects that would issue a death warrant on you for saying something like that in public. I would recommend you continue your vehement defense of Islam on the internet...and dont try that in public, or on the streets of...say...Iran. Or anywhere that muslim fundamentalists are in power. In those places be smart...cover your face, shut your mouth...and get your ass in the back of the Suburban.

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    yeah, yeah...We know you hate those opposing the Mosque of conquest. Do you feel better now that you have been able to generalize and use foul language all in the same post?


    j-mac
    You're joking right?

    So I hate myself? I oppose the mosque being built where it is. I think its wrong. I think that doing so shows the person building it is either a tactless douche, a lying ass, on an oblivious idiot...one of the three. I've said this over multiple threads over, and over, and over again. I use my "vulgar" language because its the language I've used to describe this guy again and again.

    What I do oppose is attempting to stop the building of the mosque through changing the laws or manipulating the laws. what I oppose is violating the constitution. What I also oppose is people saying that simply feeling that this mosque shouldn't be built there is somehow "bigoted" or "racist" or "islamophobic".

    One of the main reasons I've continually said this guy is potentially tactless is based on the flippant disregard for the emotions of thousands and thousands of Americans with relation to what is essentially a national place of mourning, ala the Arizona. One of the main reasons I've continually said this guy is potentially a lier is because every action he's done from the start of buying the land where it is located is contrary to his stated purposes.

    If he moves the mosque elsewhere then it'd be unreasonable of me to continue with those two possabilities to the same verocity and level because part of the evidence that leads me to believe it is removed. Indeed, in regards to the 2nd one, it would actually further re-enforce that perhaps he actually is interested in the center as being something to "build bridges" as he's recognizing the outrage and taking the ability to move it without essentially taking heavy financial damage for just abandoning land that he rightfully bought.

    I would say this disproves the possability of him being tactless, and don't even mention the oblivious option, becuase both are still possible with this. With him either initially thinking "to hell with what people think or how people feel" and then realizing its going to be harmful to his cause, OR him just not realizing this was going to be the reaction from the very people he'd need to "build bridges" too in which case...yeah, oblivious.

    Seriously, where in the world do you get that I "hate those opposing" the mosque? Simply because I don't want to stoop to the level of ****ting on the constitution and siding with big government to forcibly stop it?

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    If they do it here's one guy that will state that this gives much more credence to their notion of wanting to "Build bridges" and provide "outreach" to those who have a misguided view of Islam and wants to show them that there is such thing as moderate, respectful Islam. If they did this my notion that they're a tactless douchebag or a lying ass would change significantly.
    Those who wish to impose Sharia and refuse to condemn Hamas are not "moderate" by our standards no matter what they might say by way of deluding naifs into thinking otherwise.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Seriously, where in the world do you get that I "hate those opposing" the mosque? Simply because I don't want to stoop to the level of ****ting on the constitution and siding with big government to forcibly stop it?

    Apologies....Mistaken identity.


    j-mac
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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    NP, not immune to doing that at times myself.

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
    Anyone else see a 1st amendment problem with this?
    Now we're concerned for violating the 1st Amendment. Just so we're clear...

    It's not okay for a state to "give public land" to a private entity in order to build a place of worship off of or away from hallowed ground in order to serve and protect the public trust.

    But it's okay to deny the owners of this same place of worship their legal right to build said place of worship on private land that met all applicable city ordinance laws thereby affording them their 1st Amendment right to worship as they please?

    That's brilliant!

    If published reports are true, what I'm beginning to see taking place around this country amounts to the same level of fear and bigotry that was espoused to slaves before they were freed. This issue stopped being about sensativity for the victims of 9/11 and their families when mosques around the country were being denies their legal right to be built. Were will it end, people? Can't you see the larger picture here?

    To deny these mosques to be built is to ignore one of our basis Constitutional freedoms - to worship as we please. In doing so, we're very likely to spark the very holy war we claim we we're trying to prevent.

    You hate or mistrust Muslims of all types from all lands simply because of what a small few did on one tragic day, not what those who want to do the right thing say, not what they do. So, you deny them their right to worship by denying their legal right to build a place of worship, yet you'll approval the building of a Christian church, a Jewish synagoge, or Budist Temple. You're afraid of being hurt by the enemy from within (sleeper cells and home grown terrorist) and from without (terrorist coming to the U.S. on student or tourist VISAs). I understand your concerns, but folks that's why we have local, state and federal law enforcement to protect us from these people. Granted, they dropped the ball in the days, weeks and months leading up to 9/11, but have stepped up efforts since. When was the last successful terrorist attack on U.S. soil? Those who honestly believe they are stopping another terrorist attack from happening again by denying these mosques to be built are actually embolding the very enemy you're trying to keep at bay. It's a shame most of you refuse to see that! Frankly, I'm more afraid for our country's national security than I've ever been in the days after 9/11. These are freightening times because we as a nation are once again being consumed by our own prejudicies...and fear instead of placing our protective agencies at the forefront and allowing them to continue to do their due diligence on our behalf which is to protect and serve. But you don't throw this country into a police state, not over the protection of one of our basic human rights.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-18-10 at 12:25 PM.

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Now we're concerned for violating the 1st Amendment. Just so we're clear...

    It's not okay for a state to "give public land" to a private entity in order to build a place of worship off of or away from hallowed ground in order to serve and protect the public trust.

    But it's okay to deny the owners of this same place of worship their legal right to build said place of worship on private land that met all applicable city ordinance laws thereby affording them their 1st Amendment right to worship as they please?

    That's brilliant!

    If published reports are true, what I'm beginning to see taking place around this country amounts to the same level of fear and bigotry that was espoused to slaves before they were freed. This issue stopped being about sensativity for the victims of 9/11 and their families mosques around the country were being denies their legal right to be built. Were will it end, people? Can't you see the larger picture here?

    To deny these mosques to be built is to ignore one of our basis Constitutional freedoms - to worship as we please. In doing so, we're very likely to spark the very holy war we claim we we're trying to prevent.

    You hate or mistrust Muslims of all types from all lands simply because you don't trust them, not what they say, not what they do. So, you deny them their right to worship by denying their legal right to build a place of worship, yet you'll approval the building of a Christian church, a Jewish synagoge, or Budist Temple. You're afraid of being hurt by the enemy from within (sleeper cells and home grown terrorist) and from without (terrorist coming to the U.S. on student or tourist VISAs). I understand your concerns, but folks that's why we have local, state and federal law enforcement to protect us from these people. Granted, they dropped the ball in the days, weeks and months leading up to 9/11, but have stepped up efforts since. When was the last successful terrorist attack on U.S. soil? Those who honestly believe their stopping this from happening again by denying these mosques to be built are actually embolding the very enemy you're trying to keep at bay. It's a shame most of you refuse to see that! Frankly, I'm more afraid for our country's national security than I've ever been in the days after 9/11. These are freightening times because we as a nation are once again being consumed by our own prejudicies...and fear instead of placing our protective agencies at the forefront and allowing them to continue to do their due diligence on our behalf which is to protect and serve. But you don't throw this country into a police state, not over the protection of one of our basic human rights.
    Brilliant ??

    You managed to weave together a strawman and racism into the same post... congratulations !

    First, I don't know of anyone that wants to "deny" the builders the right to build the mosque. The only criticism I hear is that the shouldn't build it there. It wouldn't hurt them to show Americans a little empathy rather than simply demanding it only for themselves. Every 9th grader knows that they have the "right" to build the mosque there. Every one else should also know that they "shouldn't" build it there out of respect for those that died on 9/11.

    I won't even comment on the perceived racism you brought up because it's simply too bizarre.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Brilliant ??

    You managed to weave together a strawman and racism into the same post... congratulations !

    First, I don't know of anyone that wants to "deny" the builders the right to build the mosque. The only criticism I hear is that the shouldn't build it there. It wouldn't hurt them to show Americans a little empathy rather than simply demanding it only for themselves. Every 9th grader knows that they have the "right" to build the mosque there. Every one else should also know that they "shouldn't" build it there out of respect for those that died on 9/11.

    I won't even comment on the perceived racism you brought up because it's simply too bizarre.
    But it's no straw man; the prejudice emposed here is real. Look at all the reports that are cropping up against American Muslims in this country, specifically, the number of mosque being denied construction? Is LA Ground Zero? Murfreeboro, TN? Any city in Alabama? Where does it end? You can't sit there and tell me this is only about the mosque near Ground Zero when mosques around this country are being denied the right to be built and the focus for their denial isn't because they didn't comply with some zoning law or failed to pay a permit fee. It's outright fear and hate! Read the reports that are coming in, concerns for enactment of Sharia Law. Does that have anything to do with building a mosque at Ground Zero or the concerns for the sensativity of the families of the victims of 9/11?

    Wake up, people! This is starting to get way out of hand. It's not that I'm insensative about the 9/11 victims or their families. My heart goes out to them and I honor their memories and their sacrafic atleast once a year same as I'm sure many of you do if not more often. But we cannot allow our hate and fear to override our judgement. We must remain true to our Constitutional values even if it hurts.

    Here's an article that speaks to how local, state and federal law enforcement helped deter Muslim extremism with the aid of the very Iman who wants to build this mosque.

    Linked article: 'Ground Zero Mosque' Imam Helped FBI With Counterterrorism Efforts.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-18-10 at 12:40 PM.

  9. #79
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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But it's no straw man
    Then kindly point out the posts in question who have actually advanced such arguments.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But it's no straw man; the prejudice emposed here is real. Look at all the reports that are cropping up against American Muslims in this country, specifically, the number of mosque being denied construction? Is LA Ground Zero? Murfreeboro, TN? Any city in Alabama? Where does it end? You can't sit there and tell me this is only about the mosque near Ground Zero when mosques around this country are being denied the right to be built and the focus for their denial isn't because they didn't comply with some zoning law or failed to pay a permit fee. It's outright fear and hate! Read the reports that are coming in, concerns for enactment of Sharia Law. Does that have anything to do with building a mosque at Ground Zero or the concerns for the sensativity of the families of the victims of 9/11?

    Wake up, people! This is starting to get way out of hand. It's not that I'm insensative about the 9/11 victims or their families. My heart goes out to them and I honor their memories and their sacrafic atleast once a year same as I'm sure many of you do if not more often. But we cannot allow our hate and fear to override our judgement. We must remain true to our Constitutional values even if it hurts.
    Then you must also believe that those fighting the construction of synagogues, Christian churches, LDS churches, etc. are also bigots ???

    Who is claiming that we shouldn't be true to the Constitution ??

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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