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Thread: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    And assasinating him wouldn't save 300,000 American lives. IMO, that's a very naive mindset.
    Many in the West are justifiably fearful of criticizing Muslims because of the ongoing death threats, often successful. There seems no reason why the democracies, in order to minimize threats and acts of terrorism, should not have the same policy.


    Of course. The contents of the video have no affect on my argument, though.
    There are many more such videos and I don't think we should be complacent about them.

    Even if I agree with the conclusion that the world would be a better place with this douchebag in a pine box, I don't believe the ends would justify the means in this instance
    .

    Is your theory that they are not very serious and that its all talk?

    I believe that they are serious, their history shows that, and we should respond accordingly. Targeting individuals who speak out for terrorism would ultimately save a lot of lives..

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    It's heartening to see that in secular Turkey only 14% of them support suicide bombings and violence against civilians.

    I hope the numbers remain that low once they join the EU.

  3. #473
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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Personally, I refuse to be drawn into this phony crap-slinging fight again. It's really fairly simple, either you take a stand to abide by the principles this Nation was built upon, or you don't. Either the Constitution and the rule of law apply to all equally, or they mean nothing. Period. I KNOW where I stand and it damn sure isn't with hate-mongers and bigots.

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Many in the West are justifiably fearful of criticizing Muslims because of the ongoing death threats, often successful. There seems no reason why the democracies, in order to minimize threats and acts of terrorism, should not have the same policy.
    I'm confused. How would being willing to engage in acts of terrorism lead to a minimization of acts of terrorism? It seems as though such an approach would increase the overall number of acts of terrorism, not decrease them.


    There are many more such videos and I don't think we should be complacent about them.
    I know there are many such videos, and there are also many videos of the reverse (people who are on "our" side who have similar types of views as this guy has).

    I also don't believe that complacency is the answer. But I also believe that the options are far more varied than simply being "complacency" vs. "assasination/terrorism in response to supporting terrorism".

    Is your theory that they are not very serious and that its all talk?
    No. I think he believes his motives are good and true. Just like those who oppose him think their motives are good and true.

    My personal is that we shouldn't engage in the same tactics if we are going to demonize them for those tactics. If we don't demonize their tactics, then we lose no "moral" high ground by engaging in the same tactics.

    I believe that they are serious, their history shows that, and we should respond accordingly. Targeting individuals who speak out for terrorism would ultimately save a lot of lives..
    I disagree with the conclusion. I believe that it will escalate the situation. I think that our own short-sighted immediate-gratification policies have led to the mess we are dealing with in regards to terrorism. I think that continuing to engage in similar short-sighted immediate-gratification policies is folly.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It's heartening to see that in secular Turkey only 14% of them support suicide bombings and violence against civilians.

    I hope the numbers remain that low once they join the EU.
    The way the question is worded conditionally "In the defense of Islam" is likely to have more people in support of suicide bombings in possible occupations by western powers. Gallup has a poll conducted in every muslim country with tens of thousands of persons polled that comes to much lower numbers, to the point that they note in their publications Americans have a higher support of killing civilians in war. "Killing civilians in war, Always Justified?" I believe was the question. The sampling in this research composes only a fraction of the gallup poll as well. I got the book in my room at home.

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I'm confused. How would being willing to engage in acts of terrorism lead to a minimization of acts of terrorism? It seems as though such an approach would increase the overall number of acts of terrorism, not decrease them.
    Probably its your lack of understanding of the Arab mindset. The Arabs respect force and the overt appearance of it, period. I've seen this as an --- in Israel, ---- and Saudi 8 times over the last --- years. Holding hands and "moving toward democracy" doesn't mean **** to Abu Banat with 12 kids if you can't back up the rhetoric with OPs aimed at the Arab street. Rabin used to call it "an iron fist in a velvet glove".Exactly. Enough fluff to keep things rolling and enough iron to flatten any problems.




    No. I think he believes his motives are good and true. Just like those who oppose him think their motives are good and true.
    I would never 'off' an "innocent" especially kids. Thats the difference
    My personal is that we shouldn't engage in the same tactics if we are going to demonize them for those tactics. If we don't demonize their tactics, then we lose no "moral" high ground by engaging in the same tactics.
    One of the keys to winning a fight is knowing when the fight actually began. Most people continue to argue (diplomacy) long after the fight has actually started. And it usually started long before the first punch and if we keep looking to punish them for what they did instead of beating them to the punch, we will lose this thing.

    There is no excuse for a live terrorist - that, like all bad things in life, is a marksmanship issue. You shoot them in the face

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    That's called moving the goalposts. The claim was that a certain portion of the 1.5 billion Muslims (10-15% or 150,000,000-225,000,000) worldwide are actively engaged in terrorism. That was a fabrication from ric27. Supporting terrorism is not the equivalent of engaging in terrorism. America supports terrorism when it suits them.

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Tucker Case;1059006661]I'm confused.
    Why am I not surprised?

    How would being willing to engage in acts of terrorismlead to a minimization of acts of terrorism? It seems as though such an approach would increase the overall number of acts of terrorism, not decrease them.
    Nowhere was I advocating terrorism. The idiot in the video was. My position is that we should eliminate those who advocate terrorism. That is not terrorism.

    This is the definition. "Terrorism is the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear".

    I know there are many such videos, and there are also many videos of the reverse (people who are on "our" side who have similar types of views as this guy has).
    It seems you just don't get it. We are not concerned with those millions of Muslims who only want peace and to get along in their lives, look after their families, etc. They are not our concern, Our concern is only those who advocate and abet terrorism. There really is no need for your confusion.

    I also don't believe that complacency is the answer. But I also believe that the options are far more varied than simply being "complacency" vs. "assasination/terrorism in response to supporting terrorism".
    The fact is you don't know what to do, do you? You're hoping everything somehow magically works out and we eventually form a big circle, holding hands, and sing "All You Need Is Love". Right?

    No. I think he believes his motives are good and true.
    You think advocating the murder of 300,000 innocent people is good and true???

    Just like those who oppose him think their motives are good and true.
    I oppose all those who believe killing innocent people is justified, no matter what their motives. Are you European?

    My personal is that we shouldn't engage in the same tactics if we are going to demonize them for those tactics. If we don't demonize their tactics, then we lose no "moral" high ground by engaging in the same tactics.
    If there is anyone who is advocating the murder of 300,000 innocent Muslims I wouldn't fault them for shooting the guy. Someone should have done it with Hitler.

    I disagree with the conclusion. I believe that it will escalate the situation.
    Escalate how?

    I think that our own short-sighted immediate-gratification policies have led to the mess we are dealing with in regards to terrorism. I think that continuing to engage in similar short-sighted immediate-gratification policies is folly.
    So you have another plan apart from taking out terrorism advocates, huh? Why not share it?

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    That's called moving the goalposts. The claim was that a certain portion of the 1.5 billion Muslims (10-15% or 150,000,000-225,000,000) worldwide are actively engaged in terrorism. That was a fabrication from ric27. Supporting terrorism is not the equivalent of engaging in terrorism. America supports terrorism when it suits them.
    Actively supporting terrorism can take many different forms, including making financial donations. Those numbers would seem to be optimistic, as there are entire Islamic states which actively support terrorism.

    Perhaps you can explain where an American government has supported terrorism. Do you have a special reason for centering out the Americans?

  10. #480
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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Degreez View Post
    That's called moving the goalposts. The claim was that a certain portion of the 1.5 billion Muslims (10-15% or 150,000,000-225,000,000) worldwide are actively engaged in terrorism. That was a fabrication from ric27. Supporting terrorism is not the equivalent of engaging in terrorism. America supports terrorism when it suits them.
    Nice spin but it shows it is not a religion of Peace

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