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Thread: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

  1. #431
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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    The Nuclear Bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a purely political decision.
    .
    1 Hiroshima was a military target

    2 Nagasaki was a major port and contained extensive shipyards and repair facilities.

    Had Japan not surrendered unconditionally, we would have continued to bomb their cities with atomic weapons and incendiary bombs until they either did surrender or there was no one left to oppose our landings. Period

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Japan and the Japanese are disgusting in their efforts to rewrite history and ignore the atrocities they committed while moaning about their status as the sole victims of nuclear attack.

    I call bull****

    Japan 1935-1945 is not Japan today. Addressing then specifically, they didn't have a high regard for life that wasn't Japanese. They were in perfect agreement with Nazi Germany regarding a Master Race, only it was Japanese. All other races were inferior. Japanese leadership was successful in creating a widespread "Bushido" spirit in the military, when it had previously applied only to Samurai, and even then, it wasn't as universal as portrayed by movies and myth. But in the context of WWII, it meant that an enemy who surrendered dropped in status even further.

    Now the big picture.....If Japan had developed atomic weapons, I have absolutely no doubt like many others here in these forums that they would have used them with great glee wherever and whenever they could for as long as they had weapons. They showed no hesitation when it came to bayonetting and beheading men, women, children and babies simply for sport.

    They even had challenges between Japanese Army officers in Nanking and written up with great pride in the Japanese Army newspaper. What was the challenge you ask? Who could behead the most Chinese in a single minute. So they went out and just gathered up a couple of hundred men and lined them up to be beheaded.
    What do their actions have to do with our deliberate targetting and killing of civilians with those bombs?
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    What do their actions have to do with our deliberate targetting and killing of civilians with those bombs?
    Japan was fought as a total war. There were no safe zones for the enemy. The US waged war to destroy their armies, air forces, naval forces and means of production. We also bombed cities and when it was decided that high explosive was not quite the right tool for the job, we switched to incendiary bombs because most of Japanese homes were made largely of wood and paper so, they burn really, really nice. And if you get a really big fire underway, it creates a firestorm. The rising heat and air creates a vacuum that sucks in air from miles around to feed the inferno. Basically, we did NOT **** around. It was tit for tat in those days....The intention was to sap the will of the people to fight

    Should we now go and apologize to Japan for bombing their cities? Maybe Japan should apologized because Japan was the aggressor and started the war.

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    What do their actions have to do with our deliberate targetting and killing of civilians with those bombs?
    Tucker, WWII Was a different kind of war. The great failure of looking at History, is to try and JUDGE History with modern thinking. You will fail miserably. Which is exactly what you are doing now.

    Why did we nuke them? To win the war. Did that mean killing civilians, yep. Why? Cause that's how war HAD ALWAYS been fought, throughout history.

    Today, we can be far more circumspect, too much so really, but we don't need to firebomb a city to take out the factories. We can put a 2k lbs. bomb through the WINDOW of our choice.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Suppose you lay out what you will accept as definitive proof of this, because it is becoming clear that there may be more than 10% world wide. Consider:

    or the original article:

    So what will you accept as proof?
    j-mac
    Is that supposed to be proof that there 150,000,000 to 225,000,000 Muslims actively engaged in terrorism worldwide?

    Because your questionable source does not even comment on how many Muslims are actively engaged in terrorism. It touches on how many are "radical", as if there was an accurate measurement for it. The original claim by ric27 was that there are 10 to 15 percent of the entire Muslim population that is actively engaged in terrorism. You, nor Grant, nor ric27 have substantiated that claim. Grant offered a poll that said 40% of British Muslims want Sharia law applied to predominantly Muslim areas. The same poll stated that 99% of British Muslims saw the 7/7 attacks as wrong. You have offered a questionable source that only states that a certain percentage of Muslims are "radical". I call it questionable because the author is a blogger and a closet racist who has made these same statements:

    "I care about the white race. It is the source of and is inseparable from everything we are, everything we have, and everything our civilization has achieved."

    On May 4, 2007 Auster was expelled from FrontPage Magazine, because of the controversy over an article he wrote in which he complained that "[e]ach story of black on white rape is reported in isolation, not presented as part of a larger pattern" and that "white women in this country are being targeted by black rapists."

  6. #436
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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Tucker, WWII Was a different kind of war. The great failure of looking at History, is to try and JUDGE History with modern thinking. You will fail miserably. Which is exactly what you are doing now.

    Why did we nuke them? To win the war. Did that mean killing civilians, yep. Why? Cause that's how war HAD ALWAYS been fought, throughout history.

    Today, we can be far more circumspect, too much so really, but we don't need to firebomb a city to take out the factories. We can put a 2k lbs. bomb through the WINDOW of our choice.
    You've got the order of the "judging" wrong Vicchio. I'm not judging history with modern thinking. If anything, I'm judging modern actions with historical thinking.

    Specifically, Let's look at the bolded section of your post. If that is true, and it justifies our past behaviors, and the only thing that makes it so that does not apply anymore is the underlined bit, then we have to say that our enemies, who don't have the ability to "put a 2k lbs. bomb through the WINDOW of thier choice." are still bound by the same rules as that which is bolded, no?

    I'm saying we can't have it both ways. It can't be "evil" when they do it while being "good" (or at least "the way it's always been done") when we did it.

    Ironically, I'm the one who is accused of moral relativism when my arguments are not based on my subective agreeing or disagreeing with the action. If 9/11 was terrorism, then Nagasaki was terrorism. Plain and simple. Just because the word came about later doesn't change the fact that it is still applicable in retrospect.

    What we come to, which most peopel are unwilling to admit, is that the ultimate reality of an even-handed definition is that we either have to condemn all terrorist actions as evil (including those that have been to the USA's benefit) or acknowledge that sometimes terrorism is OK.

    I lean towards taking the former stance because I don't think terrorism is OK even when it's done by my country.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

  7. #437
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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    I don't understand how the people defending the vaporizing of 100,000 civilians by calling them "acceptable casualties" can then go on to whine about how Hamas shoots a rocket into Israel.

    I mean look at this statement:

    Quote Originally Posted by MrV

    Why did we nuke them? To win the war. Did that mean killing civilians, yep. Why? Cause that's how war HAD ALWAYS been fought, throughout history.
    Doesn't sound too dissimilar to Hamas' justification.

    Then again, we all know that the people that are crazy enough to defend the mass murder of Hiroshima/Nagasaki have selective morality. Whatever suits their interests is of course acceptable and justifiable in their eyes, whether it's the dropping of a nuclear bomb on civilians, the massacre of Iraqi civilians and civilian infrastructure, the support of Hamid Karzai in Afghanistan, etc...
    Last edited by Khayembii Communique; 09-23-10 at 12:17 AM.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  8. #438
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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post

    Then again, we all know that the people that are crazy enough to defend the mass murder of Hiroshima/Nagasaki have selective morality.
    No **** sherlock. **** with the bull and you get the horns.

    In this case, payback was not one, but two mushroom clouds rising over the ruins of cities in your country.
    A country that declared war on us.

    Read up on (I'll use wiki to make you feel at home)

    Nanking Massacre Nanking Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Bataan Death March Bataan Death March - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Manchurian POW camps where POWs suffered vivisection without anesthesia and the local population were guinea pigs for germ warfare trials and the other evil war crimes of Unit 731 Unit 731 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Enslavement of thousands of Korean "comfort girls" (all Asians estimate at 200k and up to 410k by Chinese)..and Dutch women captured in Indonesia were sent to Japanese military brothels too!

    Enslavement of POWs throughout the Pacific

    Execution of Doolittle's men captured after the bombing of Tokyo (3 executed and 1 starved to death) and execution of approximately 250,000 Chinese civilians for aiding them

    The widespread, endemic, and acculturated perpetration of war crimes by Japanese armed forces in WW2

  9. #439
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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Me
    Then again, we all know that the people that are crazy enough to defend the mass murder of Hiroshima/Nagasaki have selective morality.
    No **** sherlock.
    At least some of them openly wear their hypocrisy on their sleeve.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    No **** sherlock. **** with the bull and you get the horns.

    In this case, payback was not one, but two mushroom clouds rising over the ruins of cities in your country.
    A country that declared war on us.

    Read up on (I'll use wiki to make you feel at home)

    Nanking Massacre Nanking Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Bataan Death March Bataan Death March - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Manchurian POW camps where POWs suffered vivisection without anesthesia and the local population were guinea pigs for germ warfare trials and the other evil war crimes of Unit 731 Unit 731 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Enslavement of thousands of Korean "comfort girls" (all Asians estimate at 200k and up to 410k by Chinese)..and Dutch women captured in Indonesia were sent to Japanese military brothels too!

    Enslavement of POWs throughout the Pacific

    Execution of Doolittle's men captured after the bombing of Tokyo (3 executed and 1 starved to death) and execution of approximately 250,000 Chinese civilians for aiding them

    The widespread, endemic, and acculturated perpetration of war crimes by Japanese armed forces in WW2
    See the part I made bold?

    Do you believe targeting civilians for political purposes is terrorism?

    Do you believe killing numerous civilians at once is a war crime?

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