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Thread: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

  1. #401
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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    You are failing to acknowledge one key element in your rationalization here, namely, that the targets of terrorism are random civilians chosen for the fact they are ordinary citizens, whereas your scenario here is played out with a person chosen for their contribution TO the terrorism. It is a targeted assasination rather than an act of terrorism, itself.
    Targetted assassinations can still be terrorism. The key is that the assassinated person is civilian. Randomization has nothing to do with it. 9/11 was a targeted attack. It's not like they were just planniong on crashing a plane in New York. They targeted the WTC because of it's economic implications.

    By your rationalizations, had Goebels not commited suicide and was brought to trial at Nurenberg, you would have found him innocent.
    Why on Earth would that happen? Just because something isn't labelled "terrorism" doesn't mean it would not receive consequences.

    Also, I'm not the opne rationalizing. I'm creating a clear and concise definition. The only people who are rationalizing are those who wish to engage in the same types of behaviors without calling it by the same name.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 09-22-10 at 11:26 AM.
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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    So the next time a Muslim is putting a battery in their cell phone you are going to shoot them, very good to know.

    Hey Mods, does this constitute violence yet against a person that follows the Muslim religion?
    Not "A" Muslim! Only a Muslim who is encouraging the deaths of hundereds of thousands of innocent people.

    Do you believe that all Muslims are terrorists?

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Apologist. Pure and simple


    j-mac
    Mostly simple.

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    And where did i advocate the murders of hundreds of thousand of people?? That's what the Muslim in the video is doing. You really haven't watched to video, have you?

    You and everyone else who takes a hard line stance on terrorism advocates for the murder of hundreds of thousands of people. By your own definition, you would be a terrorist.
    You want a soft line on terrorism!! Does anyone know this guy? Is he really this stupid or just pretending??

    Correct me if I'm misunderstanding this. It appears that you are advocating terrorism, but only when it used to promote your ideology. Is this correct?
    My "ideology" is to save the lives of hundreds of thousands of innocent people by taking out one religious fanatic who is advocating and encouraging their deaths. What is your ideology that would permit this?
    Last edited by Grant; 09-22-10 at 12:08 PM.

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Targetted assassinations can still be terrorism. The key is that the assassinated person is civilian. Randomization has nothing to do with it. 9/11 was a targeted attack. It's not like they were just planniong on crashing a plane in New York. They targeted the WTC because of it's economic implications.
    No it is not. Terrorism is used to spread terror throught the general population, to herd them in a certain political direction. This would be an assassination which, in a time of war. is perfectly acceptable..

  6. #406
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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And where did i advocate the murders of hundreds of thousand of people?? That's what the Muslim in the video is doing. You really haven't watched to video, have you?
    Promoting a hard line on terror is advocating the murder of hundreds of thousands. I'm not saying the hard line is wrong, I'm saying that claiming that simply advociating for deaths of hundreds of thousands is not, in and of itself, terrorism.

    Terrorism is a kind of action, not a kind of rhetoric.


    You want a soft line on terrorism!!
    Where'd you get that idea? I'm just pointing out the flaws in your definition of terrorism because if that were the definition, those who take an extreme hard line on terrorism (such as advocating for the deaths of civilians who promote terrorist ideology without engaging in it themselves) would in fact be terrorists themselves. That's using the definition you have created, not my definition.

    But just because you place the false desriptor of "terrorism" on that behavior doesn't mean I do as well.


    Does anyone know this guy?
    I'd say most people know me.

    You've been here since January. Quite frankly, you should know who I am, too.

    Is he really this stupid or just pretending??
    I don't think your tactic here is a very good idea. If you don't wish to debate the merits and demerits of your definition, then simply refrain from commenting. This kind of statement, however, is highly inadvisable.
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  7. #407
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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    [QUOTE=Grant;1059000068]

    No it is not. Terrorism is used to spread terror throught the general population, to herd them in a certain political direction. This would be an assassination which, in a time of war. is perfectly acceptable..
    Teh assasination in question would be an attempt to instill terror in the extremist Muslim population by killing one of their religious leaders.
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  8. #408
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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Targetted assassinations can still be terrorism. The key is that the assassinated person is civilian.



    No, the key is the randomness of the selection of victim. Those in the wtc were not known to the attackers, and even as their choice was symbolic, their identity was not known. The key to the assumption from the standpoint of potential victim is "hey, that could have been me", since people's own actions cannot guarantee they will avoid being killed. In the case of a targeted assassination, the person is known, their actions are absolutely central to the issue of why they are being targeted and the average citizen DOESN'T come away thinking "Hey, that could have been me", because most obviously, it couldn't -- not unless they were actively engaged in the promotion of terror.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    No, the key is the randomness of the selection of victim. Those in the wtc were not known to the attackers, and even as their choice was symbolic, their identity was not known. THe key to the assumption from the standoint of potential victim is "hey, that could have been me", since people's own actions cannot guarantee they will avoid being killed. In the case of a targeted assasination, he person is known, their actions are absolutely central to the issue of why they are being targeted and the average citizen DOESN'T come away thinking "Hey, that could have been me", because most obviously, it couldn't -- not unless they were actively engaged in the promotion of terror.
    Terrorism doesn't require a random selction. Remember the Unabomber? Disd he "assasinate" college professors and others who espoused a pro-technology ideology, or was he commiting terrorism?

    He killed people because of the ideology they promoted. He specifically targetted people. It's considered terrorism. The only real difference here is that this professor promotes a different ideology than the ideology old Teddy-boy sent his letter bombs about.
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  10. #410
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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Promoting a hard line on terror is advocating the murder of hundreds of thousands. I'm not saying the hard line is wrong, I'm saying that claiming that simply advociating for deaths of hundreds of thousands is not, in and of itself, terrorism.




    You are playing a little bit fast and loose with your terms here, Tucker. Promoting a hard line on terror is advocating the DEATHS of hundreds of thousands, but your implication that those deaths would be murders is unfounded. We do not call it a murder when a criminal is executed, nor do we call it a murder when a soldier dies. Implicit in the use of the term "murder" is the underlying innocence of the targets in question. Those involved in terrorism AREN'T innocent, since they are actively plotting to murder, themselves, and to call their deaths "murder" is a rhetorical slight of hand that plays right into their agenda -- an agenda predicated upon the creation of false moral equivalencies.
    Last edited by Gardener; 09-22-10 at 12:32 PM.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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