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Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!
That's an interesting analogy because neither argument presented is what is required to make it a fish, nor does the presence of both characteristics make something a fish.
For example, sea snakes have scales and they swim, yet they are not fish.
Nor does something actualy need to have one of those charchteristics to be a fish: Catfish have no scales, for example.
As far as swimming goes, I'm not aware of any fish existing which doesn't have the ability to swim, but when you look at something like th emudskipper, it's clear that this need not be the primary means of locomotion either.
So I think your analogy is very appropriate becuse of this. It is hitting on one aspect of my arguments perfectly: by arbitrarily defining something using superficial characteristics instead of substantial characteristics, we tend to label things whatever we wish them to be without any regard for the veracity of that label.
Instead, these terms need to be defined objectively and with a primacy taken on the charactersitics that actually delineate such a thing from something else and then making sure to include all aspects into the definition.
For example, any such argument regarding definitions doesn't include the way that fish respirate is ignroing a major part of the actual definitions in favor of nonessential stuff.
I disagree with your assesment that the influence primarily one directional.
I would say it is a two-way influence i.e. what we do influences how they perceive who we are and who we are influences their perceptions of what we do. It is more cyclical than anything else, creating a snowball effect over time.
Meh, most people promote a limited and/or simplistic view of things. I don't take the same approach myself, for example, earlier in this thread I've pointed out that who we are is definitely a factor. I think I've been one of the few peopel who have acknoeldged both aspects when discussing their motives. While you and I clearly disagree on the one-directional vs. two-directional aspects of the influence, we both agree that it is dualistic in its nature with regard to Islamic terrorism.
I do have a question though: if you are so unimpressed by refusal to acknowledge the that both contribute, why is it that you never seem to correct those who refuse to see how our own actions have contributed?
It's funny, but invariably any discussion about the root causes of terrorism usually devolves into a series of postings by people eager to advance only one part of the formula while seeking to deny the other part. "Look, it's a fish because it has scales!" "No, it's a fish because it swims!!"
That's an interesting analogy because neither argument presented is what is required to make it a fish, nor does the presence of both characteristics make something a fish.
For example, sea snakes have scales and they swim, yet they are not fish.
Nor does something actualy need to have one of those charchteristics to be a fish: Catfish have no scales, for example.
As far as swimming goes, I'm not aware of any fish existing which doesn't have the ability to swim, but when you look at something like th emudskipper, it's clear that this need not be the primary means of locomotion either.
So I think your analogy is very appropriate becuse of this. It is hitting on one aspect of my arguments perfectly: by arbitrarily defining something using superficial characteristics instead of substantial characteristics, we tend to label things whatever we wish them to be without any regard for the veracity of that label.
Instead, these terms need to be defined objectively and with a primacy taken on the charactersitics that actually delineate such a thing from something else and then making sure to include all aspects into the definition.
For example, any such argument regarding definitions doesn't include the way that fish respirate is ignroing a major part of the actual definitions in favor of nonessential stuff.
In the case of modern Islamic terrorism -- at least the portion that has become international -- the hatred against us is directed against us for what we do AND for who we are, and it is important to note that much of the former is viewed through a lens influenced heavily by the latter.
I disagree with your assesment that the influence primarily one directional.
I would say it is a two-way influence i.e. what we do influences how they perceive who we are and who we are influences their perceptions of what we do. It is more cyclical than anything else, creating a snowball effect over time.
I'm not at all impressed by those who refuse to see that both contribute, so eager they are to promote a limited viewpoint.
Meh, most people promote a limited and/or simplistic view of things. I don't take the same approach myself, for example, earlier in this thread I've pointed out that who we are is definitely a factor. I think I've been one of the few peopel who have acknoeldged both aspects when discussing their motives. While you and I clearly disagree on the one-directional vs. two-directional aspects of the influence, we both agree that it is dualistic in its nature with regard to Islamic terrorism.
I do have a question though: if you are so unimpressed by refusal to acknowledge the that both contribute, why is it that you never seem to correct those who refuse to see how our own actions have contributed?