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Thread: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nonsense, these aren't facts, but rather far left conspiracy.


    j-mac
    Well, it isn't far right wing phoney baloney, thats for sure.

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    No religion is secular. Duh. The Imam isn't the problem, Newt Gingrich and the radical right are the problem.
    Christianity can't be secular, Islam can't be secular, Christians and Muslims can be secular, this man is not a secular Muslim he is a theocrat.


    You're more radical than the Imam, so that makes you part of the problem.
    I don't support theocracy so fail.
    LOL By the looks of it, you deal more in radical right wing hypocricy and denile, than you do in factual evidence....

    "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death." This verse was "adopted into legislation and enforced by the colonies of Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Connecticut."
    Laws criminalizing homosexual behavior: 1860 to the 1960s
    It doesn't say when that law was on the books and your own article states:

    "In the years following independence from Britain, the death penalty was gradually removed from the former colonial laws."

    Sodomy laws were still on the books in many states clear up until 2003....
    Sodomy law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    They were seldom if ever enforced. How about you list the last time somebody was prosecuted and sentenced to anything outside of a fine for consensual sexual intercourse with a person of the same gender.

    And yet the Christians are still trying to impose the death penalty for homosexuals whenever and where ever they can....

    Joe. My. God.: CHRISTIAN LOVE: Family Research Council Lobbied Congress Against Resolution Denouncing Uganda's Kill Gays Bill

    The proposed legislation in Uganda, however, has been noted by several news agencies to be inspired by American evangelical Christians.
    Uganda Anti-Homosexuality Bill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Uganda? Really scraping the bottom of the barrel aren't we? A) This Uganda bill hasn't passed, B) your second article is a blog and I don't see anywhere in the screen caps of the lobbying report where it says what the blog says it says, and C) your wiki article actually demonstrates that the American Evangelicals have in fact said they oppose the law, perhaps you can find me a quote in which they endorse that law? I know they're homophobic Christ punchers but to my knowledge they haven't called for the criminilzation of homosexuality.

    So name an Ulama that is the head honcho of all Islam?
    Name the head honcho of all of Christianity. There are 5 different sects of Islam each with their own Ulama's, however, the Ijma (consensus opinion) in all five sects (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali, and Ja'fari) is that adpostasy, sodomy, adultery, and/or pre-marital sex are capital and/or corporal offenses.


    It's true, I don't claim or pretend to be an Ulama like you do.
    I'm not the Ulama, the Ulama is the authoritative councils within the 5 sects of Islamic Fiqh which determine Islamic dogma.

    Hmm, so tell me Mullah Ferris, what is the difference between Islamism and Islam?
    Islamism is political Islam, IE an Islamist is a Muslim who supports theocratic initiatives; such as, the implementation of Sharia law.

    Well, if we use your logic then we should blame Conservatives for the Oklahoma City bombing since they share the same anti-government ideology as Timothy McVeigh.
    I would certainly be opposed to building a militia headquarters next to the site of the OKC bombing.

    Well, you must live in a very oppressed society if you think a swimming pool and a gymnasium and theatres are celebrations of oppression.
    No I think a shrine to an ideology which supports the criminilzation of apostasy, homosexuality, adultery, and pre-mariital sex along with gender discrimination celebrates oppression.

    LOL Obviously you don't know either, or you would have said how much financial compensation they got. But you didn't, did you? .......
    I do actually, actual victims of 9-11 have already been financially compensated with appx. $3.5 million going to each civilian killed or seriously inured and $4.6 million going to each first responder killed or seriously injured.

    Lung Function of 9/11 Rescuers Fell, Study Finds
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/08/nyregion/08lung.html
    And as employees of the city they have some of the best health insurance in the country.


    You didn't answer my question....

    "...if Americans believe Ground Zero to be so sacred, then how come they haven't a built a memorial there. Like, it's only been nine years and it's still a big gaping hole, that few ever visit except out of morbid curiosity. So where is America's 9/11 memorial, huh? HUH? HUH???
    Sept. 11 Memorial & Museum construction can be seen in vivid detail with new Google Earth model

    Whats so disgusting about building a swimming pool and a gymnasium and theaters? And how does that burn bridges? I really don't understand your thinking.
    They aren't building a swimming pool, theaters, and a gymnasium, they are building a Mosque. If this is a community center when will they be offering religious services for non-Muslim members of the community?

    <sigh> Yes, it did. The article was very well sourced. If you disagree with the evidence, then show me your evidence that disproves it.
    No your article quotes other articles that don't provide evidence for their assertions it does not provide one solitary scrap of evidence that the CIA funded these madrassas in which these foreign Jihadists were trained. No documentation, no quotes from CIA officials, nothing, zip, zero, except baseless speculation. Apparently an article quoting a journalist without any evidence = well sourced.

    WTF, are you talking about now? I didn't say anything about Iraq, so apparently you have a serious reading comprehension disorder.
    That is the "American Influence in Saudi Arabia," cited by OBL as justification for murdering Americans.


    Oh, so finally you are admitting that OBL isn't a mainstream Islamic and you admit there is a distinction between OBL, the jihadist and Imam Rahn, who only wants to build a community center. Gawd, it took long enough.
    The difference is in degree not in kind both Imam Rauf and OBL support Sharia based theocracy. And Rauf isn't building a community center, this is a victory Mosque that will not be offering religious services to any other members of the community.

    Hamas has never done anything to the US,
    Except kill Americans.

    so why should the Imam have to condemn them?
    Because Hamas is a terrorist organization that intentionally murders innocent men, women, and children.

    I think you're just looking for excuses to hate someone because you're too cowardly to admit you hate yourself.
    Has the Sudanese government ever attacked the U.S.? What would you think of someone who refused to denounce the Sudanese government for their acts of genocide?

    Thats right, I have no empathy for your antedotal fallacy. But if you had a shred of empathy you would stop your hateful nonsense against an innocent man who has done nothing to you or this country except try to do good.
    He is not innocent of those things which I have accused him of, he has not broken any laws, but he is an Islamist POS attempting to build a victory Mosque at Ground Zero.

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    The mosque in ground Zero.
    This is how the inside group rules this country.

    They have a false flag terror attack on 911 to justify their war in Mid-east. The Muslim is wronged as terrorist. Then they build a Mosque in WTO site to show how tolerant and fair they are. That's a trick of propaganda.

    Is that funny people flock to argue about "Allah", "victim of 911"....? The real mastermind of the 911 grins at the soap opera they directed.

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by kathaksung View Post
    The mosque in ground Zero.
    This is how the inside group rules this country.

    They have a false flag terror attack on 911 to justify their war in Mid-east. The Muslim is wronged as terrorist. Then they build a Mosque in WTO site to show how tolerant and fair they are. That's a trick of propaganda.

    Is that funny people flock to argue about "Allah", "victim of 911"....? The real mastermind of the 911 grins at the soap opera they directed.
    You are conspiracy theorist living in a fantasy world. I would say more but don't wish to get thread banned.

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Christianity can't be secular, Islam can't be secular, Christians and Muslims can be secular, this man is not a secular Muslim he is a theocrat.
    I'm pretty sure I said, "no religion is secular" before you did. Yes the Iman is a theocrat as are most clergy of any given faith and in this country it is a protected right. Is that a problem for you?

    I don't support theocracy so fail.
    Apparently it is a problem for you. However, not supporting theocracy doesn't make you any less a radical than the Imam.

    It doesn't say when that law was on the books and your own article states:

    "In the years following independence from Britain, the death penalty was gradually removed from the former colonial laws."

    They were seldom if ever enforced. How about you list the last time somebody was prosecuted and sentenced to anything outside of a fine for consensual sexual intercourse with a person of the same gender.
    So? The point is, death penalty laws for adultery and buggery were on the books in the US. And no, I don't have to jump through another one of your hoops to prove you wrong because once was suffcient.

    Uganda? Really scraping the bottom of the barrel aren't we? A) This Uganda bill hasn't passed, B) your second article is a blog and I don't see anywhere in the screen caps of the lobbying report where it says what the blog says it says, and C) your wiki article actually demonstrates that the American Evangelicals have in fact said they oppose the law, perhaps you can find me a quote in which they endorse that law? I know they're homophobic Christ punchers but to my knowledge they haven't called for the criminilzation of homosexuality.
    Again, the point is, some American Christians are indeed calling for the death penalty for homosexuals. But you are swimming in denile so here is your quote...

    [Pastor] Scott Lively, one of three evangelicals who went to Uganda at in 2009 to preach against gays, says he doesn’t support Uganda’s bill that would punish homosexuality by life imprisonment or death. Nevertheless, he said, on my radio show Monday night, it’s “a step in the right direction.”
    Rev. Scott Lively: Uganda Anti-Gay Bill “A Step In The Right Direction” « Alan Colmes&#039; Liberaland

    Name the head honcho of all of Christianity. There are 5 different sects of Islam each with their own Ulama's, however, the Ijma (consensus opinion) in all five sects (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali, and Ja'fari) is that adpostasy, sodomy, adultery, and/or pre-marital sex are capital and/or corporal offenses.
    You've stalled long enough, so name the Ulamas for all five sects of Islam.

    Christianity also has sects and their central leaders are: Catholics = Pope Benedict. Protestant Evangelicals = Billy Graham and Pat Robertson. Mormons = President Monson.

    I'm not the Ulama, the Ulama is the authoritative councils within the 5 sects of Islamic Fiqh which determine Islamic dogma.
    Ahh, you could have fooled me with your incredible expanse of knowledge of Islam. So if you're not an Ulama then you most certainly would qualify as a Mullah, Mr. Ferris Mullah.

    Islamism is political Islam, IE an Islamist is a Muslim who supports theocratic initiatives; such as, the implementation of Sharia law.
    Okay, so you know what Islamism is, but you failed to tell me the difference between Islamism and Islam. I can only assume you did so because then you would have to make a clear distinction between the political Islamists and the religious Islamics and you know damn well that the Imam is an religious Islamic and not an political Islamist.

    I would certainly be opposed to building a militia headquarters next to the site of the OKC bombing.
    No you wouldn't, because you're a radical political hypocrit just like most of your ilk.

    No I think a shrine to an ideology which supports the criminilzation of apostasy, homosexuality, adultery, and pre-mariital sex along with gender discrimination celebrates oppression.
    Nah, you're just having your little fun at someone's else's expense. You use that Southern Strategy of yours and wield it like a club to bash whatever flavor of race or ethnicty of the week or month that suits your fuqin political agenda. This week it's Muslims, last month it was Mexicans, before that it was blacks, whose next, Asians, Jews, Samoans, what?

    I do actually, actual victims of 9-11 have already been financially compensated with appx. $3.5 million going to each civilian killed or seriously inured and $4.6 million going to each first responder killed or seriously injured.
    Well goody for you, now provide a link so that I may see it too.

    And as employees of the city they have some of the best health insurance in the country.
    Apparently they don't or they wouldn't have gotten that $3.5 million you mentioned above. Thats why you need to provide a link, boy.

    Lovely. It's going to look like a victory mega funeral parlor. And to think they're going to spend all that money and take the next 10 years to build that POS knowing full well that hardly anyone will visit because lets face it, it just won't be the same without the giant grotesque hole to satisfy people's morbid curiosity, now will it?.....

    "About 99% of the world's population will never visit the site," said Bruce Polderman, a product manager for Google Earth, a satellite imagery-based mapping program which created the dimensionally accurate 3D model.....
    Read more: Sept. 11 Memorial & Museum construction can be seen in vivid detail with new Google Earth model

    They aren't building a swimming pool, theaters, and a gymnasium, they are building a Mosque. If this is a community center when will they be offering religious services for non-Muslim members of the community?
    Yes Virginia, they are planning to build a swimming pool, gym and theaters as well a separate floors for Muslims to pray.

    No your article quotes other articles that don't provide evidence for their assertions it does not provide one solitary scrap of evidence that the CIA funded these madrassas in which these foreign Jihadists were trained. No documentation, no quotes from CIA officials, nothing, zip, zero, except baseless speculation. Apparently an article quoting a journalist without any evidence = well sourced.
    Well hunny bunny, they didn't just pull all that information out of their arse if thats what you're implying. So if you want more detailed information then start a new thread and together we can do the all the fact finding and research your little heart desires.

    That is the "American Influence in Saudi Arabia," cited by OBL as justification for murdering Americans.
    Yeah, thats what I said alright.


    The difference is in degree not in kind both Imam Rauf and OBL support Sharia based theocracy. And Rauf isn't building a community center, this is a victory Mosque that will not be offering religious services to any other members of the community.
    See my previous reply to your failure to define the difference between Islamist and Islamic. And you are wrong, the Imam is going to build a community center no matter how much you stomp your little feetsy's.


    Except kill Americans.
    Well dang, then why didn't America invade Hamas and bomb the crap out them like they did Iraq? Oh thats right, the US insisted the Palestinians hold an election that helped to put Hamas in power. Oooopsie.

    Because Hamas is a terrorist organization that intentionally murders innocent men, women, and children.
    Hamas doesnt think they're terrorists, instead they think they're defending their homes and land and I haveta tell ya, 95% of the world thinks so too. So there ya go, nuff said.

    Has the Sudanese government ever attacked the U.S.? What would you think of someone who refused to denounce the Sudanese government for their acts of genocide?
    Well, what do you think about the good reverend Franklyn Graham supporting a genocidal maniac because now get this, he finds him "reasonable?"

    He is not innocent of those things which I have accused him of, he has not broken any laws, but he is an Islamist POS attempting to build a victory Mosque at Ground Zero.
    Nope, you are seriously mistaken in your radical beliefs and you are no different than a Goebbels in your repetitive use of hate propaganda to scapegoat a minority in this country for your political agenda.
    Last edited by Moot; 08-23-10 at 11:55 AM.

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    This would cause me to begin to respect Islam just a tiny bit if this turns out to be true.

    Ground Zero Mosque On The Move? « CBS New York- News, Sports, Weather, Traffic and the Best of NY
    How is it that so many Libertarians sound like fringe-right FOX newsies?

    'Libertarian' used to mean something -- now it seems like far-right conservative pissed at the GOP have high-jacked that word too. "I don't like the GOP anymore so I guess I'll call myself something else."

    A true Libertarian would stay out of this issue. The property is legally owned etc.

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    He is a private citizen. How can he deny you your first amendment rights?
    Very good question, and those opposed to the mosque are also citizens......so I guess they aren't denying muslims their rights. Now most people I know do view this as a free speech issue, since nothing of the sort is being denied.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I'm pretty sure I said, "no religion is secular" before you did. Yes the Iman is a theocrat as are most clergy of any given faith and in this country it is a protected right. Is that a problem for you?
    I have a problem that you're an out and out liar, I have not heard of nor met any priest or member of any clergy outside of Islam calling for theocracy in the U.S.. Not even Vatican ****ing City uses Canon Law. Go ahead sport name me any member of the clergy from any mainstream religion outside of Islam who is non-secularist.

    Apparently it is a problem for you. However, not supporting theocracy doesn't make you any less a radical than the Imam.
    Tell me what is so radical about condemning theocrats?

    So? The point is, death penalty laws for adultery and buggery were on the books in the US.
    No they were on the British Colonies books.

    And no, I don't have to jump through another one of your hoops to prove you wrong because once was suffcient.
    lol your article is quite clear, these were British colonial laws, and once the U.S. was founded these laws were removed.

    Again, the point is, some American Christians are indeed calling for the death penalty for homosexuals. But you are denile so here is your quote...
    Really? Show me the quote from any American Mainstream Christian organization or individual calling for the death penalty. Because your article does not demonstrate that in the slightest.

    [Pastor] Scott Lively, one of three evangelicals who went to Uganda at in 2009 to preach against gays, says he doesn’t support Uganda’s bill that would punish homosexuality by life imprisonment or death. Nevertheless, he said, on my radio show Monday night, it’s “a step in the right direction.”
    Rev. Scott Lively: Uganda Anti-Gay Bill “A Step In The Right Direction” « Alan Colmes&#039; Liberaland
    He openly advocated the criminilzation of homosexuality but stated clearly that he opposes jail time and/or the death penalty. He's still is a radical POS.

    You've stalled long enough, so name the Ulamas for all five sects of Islam.
    There are many Ulama's within each sect, but the Ijma (consensus) among these Ulama are that apostasy, homosexuality, adultery, and/or premarital sex are capital and/or corporal punishment. Name me the mainstream Islamic sect in which that is not the Ijma.


    Christianity also has sects and their central leaders are: Catholics = Pope Benedict. Protestant Evangelicals = Billy Graham and Pat Robertson. Mormons = President Monson.
    How are Billy Graham and Pat Robertson the central leaders of the Protestant Evangelicals? They do not determine Dogma for the entirety of the Evangelical Movement.

    Okay, so you know what Islamism is, but you failed to tell me the difference between Islamism and Islam. I can only assume you did so because then you would have to make a clear distinction between between the political Islamists and the religious Islamics and you know damn well that the Imam is an religious Islamic and not an political Islamist.
    That's a complete crock of ****, he supports Sharia he is a political Islamist.

    No you wouldn't, because you're a radical political hypocrit just like most of your ilk.
    lol, please provide one example of hypocrisy I have engaged in anywhere on these forums.

    Nah, you're just having your little fun at someone's else's expense. You use that Southern Strategy of yours and wield it like a club to bash whatever flavor of race or ethnicty of the week or month that suits your fuqin political agenda. This week it's Muslims, last month it was Mexicans, before that it was blacks, whose next, Asians, Jews, Samoans, what?
    FTW?

    Well goody for you, now provide a link so that I may see it too.
    But a lack of coordination led to disparities in compensation. Civilians killed or seriously injured received a total of $8.7 billion, averaging about $3.1 million per recipient, coming mostly from the Victims' Compensation Fund.

    Before the government's creation of the Fund, charities awarded an average of $1 million to the families of first responders — firefighters, police and medical workers — who died in the attack. That meant they received an average of $1.1 million more than average civilians with similar economic losses. Had the charities known about the other sources of compensation, they might have chosen to allocate their funds differently, Dixon said.

    More Than $38 Billion Paid to 9/11 Victims - latimes.com
    Apparently they don't or they wouldn't have gotten that $3.5 million you mentioned above. Thats why you need to provide a link, boy.
    The compensation payments for those killed or seriously injured not insurance pay outs. Are you honestly stating that employees for the city don't have great health insurance?

    Lovely. It's going to look like a victory mega funeral parlor. And to think they're going to spend all that money and take the next 10 years to build that POS knowing full well that hardly anyone will visit because lets face it, it just won't be the same without the giant grotesque hole to satisfy people's morbid curiosity, now will it?.....
    Ah memorial for the victims of 9-11 = POS, victory Mosque at ground zero = great idea. Now we see you for what you are.

    "About 99% of the world's population will never visit the site," said Bruce Polderman, a product manager for Google Earth, a satellite imagery-based mapping program which created the dimensionally accurate 3D model.....
    Read more: Sept. 11 Memorial & Museum construction can be seen in vivid detail with new Google Earth model
    1% of the worlds population is sixty six million nine hundred and seventy thousand five hundred and forty people who will see it.



    Yes Virginia, they are planning to build a swimming pool, gym and theaters as well a separate floors for Muslims to pray.
    They will not be offering religious services for any non-Muslim members of the community, they will be offering religious services to only Muslims, non-Muslims will be allowed entry the same as anyother Mosque so that they may receive Dawa.

    Mosque - any place of Muslim worship. A jami-masjid or Friday Mosque is a major mosque where weekly prayer services are performed and a sermon or khutbah is given.

    It's literally the textbook defintion of a Mosque.

    Well hunny bunny, they didn't just pull all that information out of their arse if thats what you're implying. So if you want more detailed information then start a new thread and together we can do the all the fact finding and research your little heart desires.
    Yes they did pull it out of their arse, because there is absolutely 0 evidence that the U.S. directly or knowingly and intentionally indirectly funded, armed, or trained the foreign Mujaheddin.

    Yeah, thats what I said alright.
    Then what did you mean by "U.S. influence in Saudi Arabia"?

    See my previous reply to your failure to define the difference between Islamist and Islamic.
    You mean your position that support of Sharia law =/= political Islamist? Support of Sharia is what differentiates an Islamist from a secular Muslim.


    And you are wrong, the Imam is going to build a community center no matter how much you stomp your little feetsy's.
    Call me when they start offering religious services to other members of the community and then we can call it a community center, until then it's the text book definition of a Mosque.

    Well dang, then why didn't America invade Hamas and bomb the crap out them like they did Iraq? Oh thats right, the US insisted the Palestinians hold an election that helped to put Hamas in power. Oooopsie.
    Got any actual arguments or just more Red Herrings?

    Hamas doesnt think they're terrorists, instead they think they're defending their homes and land and I haveta tell ya, 95% of the world thinks so too. So there ya go, nuff said.
    Hamas intentionally murders innocent men, women, and children, you really are sick.

    Well, what do you think about the good reverend Franklyn Graham supporting a genocidal maniac because now get this, he finds him "reasonable?"
    I don't think very highly of Franklyn Graham nor any Evangelicals for that matter, nor Christians in particular, I'm not a Christian I'm an atheist, but which genocidal maniac has Franklyn Graham endorsed?

    Nope, you are seriously mistaken in your radical beliefs and you are no different a Goebbels in your repetitive use of hate propaganda to scapegoat a minority for your political agenda.
    So now I'm no different than Goebbels because I'm opposed to the policies and actions of one particular Muslim, because I adamantaly oppose Sharia law and those who support Sharia because I adamantly oppose theocracy in general, and even though I have stated many times that I have absolutely no problem with secular Muslims.

    You know you're like a charicature, not even a real person, have fun with that.

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    in all five schools of Islamic Fiqh (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali, and Ja'fari) the Ijma (consensus decision) of the Ulama is that apostasy, sodomy, homosexuality, and/or premarital sex are capital and/or corporal offenses. These are the only accepted views within mainstream Islam today. This is not radical Islam, or fundamentalist Islam, or Islamism, it is mainstream Islam, there is no other Islam today save for Sufism which is seen as heretical by the rest of Islam.
    You're absolutely correct. The "hug-a-Muslim" crowd can't seem to grasp one utter simplicity:


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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    in all five schools of Islamic Fiqh (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi'i, Hanbali, and Ja'fari) the Ijma (consensus decision) of the Ulama is that apostasy, sodomy, homosexuality, and/or premarital sex are capital and/or corporal offenses. These are the only accepted views within mainstream Islam today. This is not radical Islam, or fundamentalist Islam, or Islamism, it is mainstream Islam...
    You're absolutely correct. The "hug-a-Muslim" crowd can't seem to grasp one utter simplicity:


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