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Thread: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    The mosque was never going to be built on Ground Zero and where is to be built is not visible from Ground Zero unless you have Xray vision. So that lie needs to be put to rest.

    Ground Zero is an eye sore and the area around it is little more than dilapidated buildings where few want to live or work. Small businesses in the area are struggling to survive and few people who live in New York seldom ever visit the site because they want to forget that dreadful day. The tourists who do visit only seem to do so out of morbid curiosity.

    Before all the hoopla, most New Yorkers either didn't care or welcomed the Mosque because it would have brought jobs, helped to rejuvenate the neighborhood, saved small businesses, and brought much needed funding and business to the area. Last spring, the local community had a four hour long heated debate and afterwords it was unanimously voted by community leaders to grant a permit for the Mosque.

    Then along came a bigoted British ex patriot, who isn't even an American made a youtube video full of hate and misinformation that went viral on the Internet. And then based on the lies, suddenly everybody cared about a hole in the ground, when before, all across the country most had forgotten and some had even spit on the 9/11 families (Anne Coulter and Glenn Beck) for playing the victim card or asking the government too many questions. And even more recently, a bill was blocked in congress that would have helped pay the medical bills of the firemen and volunteers who risked their lives to help others on 9/11. So please tell me, where was all this so called compassion and out pouring of concern for the last nine years?

    If Ground Zero is so sacred, then where are the monuments, the well manicured gardens, the names of the dead engraved in stone, the flowers and wreaths, the long lines of mourners, anything to suggest the site is sacred besides a big gaping dusty hole that hardly anyone visits and few have ever actually seen or had all but forgotten about until an Imam, with only good intentions simply wanted to build a cultural center nearby with a swimming pool, a basketball court, a community area, and a place to pray, to help bring life back to the area?

    As Americans, we need to set our hate and fear aside, and make the distinction between the terrorist organization, Al Qaeda who attacked us on 9/11 and a religion that 1.5 billion peaceful Muslims believe in. Otherwise, the 6,537 of our men and women who fought and died along side thousands of Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan for their freedom, and the freedoms our constitution protects for all of us here at home, will be in vain and our prejudice and ignorance over this mosque will just be another victory for the terrorists.

    So I say let the Iman build his mosque so that he and his followers can prove to us that Islam is a peaceful religion and so that we too can show the world and ourselves that we are what we say we are, a freedom loving and tolerant nation.
    Last edited by Moot; 08-20-10 at 03:05 AM.

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The mosque was never going to be built on Ground Zero and where is to be built is not visible from Ground Zero unless you have Xray vision. So that lie needs to be put to rest.

    If Ground Zero is so sacred, then where are the monuments, the well manicured gardens, the names of the dead engraved in stone, the flowers and wreaths, the long lines of mourners, anything to suggest the site is sacred besides a big gaping dusty hole that hardly anyone visits and few have ever actually seen or had all but forgotten about until an Imam, with only good intentions simply wanted to build a cultural center nearby with a swimming pool, a basketball court, a community area, and a place to pray, to help bring life back to the area?
    Great post, a lot of good points. I'm so sick of this story by now. What I'm especially sick of is the people saying "nobody denies that they have the right to build it, we're just saying they shouldn't." Ok, great, you don't think they should build it. So? Why are you still talking? If you think they have the right to build it and shouldn't, you've said your peace, now go away and let them build it. The misinformation is so prevalent, though. As far as I know at this point, it's really not even a mosque. It has an area for Muslim prayer, but the vast majority of the space is delegated to a community center that anybody from any religion can go and use.

    But we have to play this "well, I just think they shouldn't do it" game. So, fine, to those who oppose the mosque: I think you have the right to protest it, I just think you should shut up about it now. And then maybe Muslims will get the impression that America is a place of tolerance and understanding and welcoming for all people of all religions who want to co-exist peacefully.
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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The mosque was never going to be built on Ground Zero and where is to be built is not visible from Ground Zero unless you have Xray vision. So that lie needs to be put to rest.

    Ground Zero is an eye sore and the area around it is little more than dilapidated buildings where few want to live or work. Small businesses in the area are struggling to survive and few people who live in New York seldom ever visit the site because they want to forget that dreadful day. The tourists who do visit only seem to do so out of morbid curiosity.

    Before all the hoopla, most New Yorkers either didn't care or welcomed the Mosque because it would have brought jobs, helped to rejuvenate the neighborhood, saved small businesses, and brought much needed funding and business to the area. Last spring, the local community had a four hour long heated debate and afterwords it was unanimously voted by community leaders to grant a permit for the Mosque.

    Then along came a bigoted British ex patriot, who isn't even an American made a youtube video full of hate and misinformation that went viral on the Internet. And then based on the lies, suddenly everybody cared about a hole in the ground, when before, all across the country most had forgotten and some had even spit on the 9/11 families (Anne Coulter and Glenn Beck) for playing the victim card or asking the government too many questions. And even more recently, a bill was blocked in congress that would have helped pay the medical bills of the firemen and volunteers who risked their lives to help others on 9/11. So please tell me, where was all this so called compassion and out pouring of concern for the last nine years?

    If Ground Zero is so sacred, then where are the monuments, the well manicured gardens, the names of the dead engraved in stone, the flowers and wreaths, the long lines of mourners, anything to suggest the site is sacred besides a big gaping dusty hole that hardly anyone visits and few have ever actually seen or had all but forgotten about until an Imam, with only good intentions simply wanted to build a cultural center nearby with a swimming pool, a basketball court, a community area, and a place to pray, to help bring life back to the area?

    As Americans, we need to set our hate and fear aside, and make the distinction between the terrorist organization, Al Qaeda who attacked us on 9/11 and a religion that 1.5 billion peaceful Muslims believe in. Otherwise, the 6,537 of our men and women who fought and died along side thousands of Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan for their freedom, and the freedoms our constitution protects for all of us here at home, will be in vain and our prejudice and ignorance over this mosque will just be another victory for the terrorists.

    So I say let the Iman build his mosque so that he and his followers can prove to us that Islam is a peaceful religion and so that we too can show the world and ourselves that we are what we say we are, a freedom loving and tolerant nation.
    Plus it is a community centre that will be used for religious gatherings also.
    PeteEU

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Correct. The point is, the only way to stop it is to go through the government.
    Really? The Dr. Laura chick wasn't "stopped" from broadcasting her radio show on some stations without the government doing it?

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The mosque was never going to be built on Ground Zero and where is to be built is not visible from Ground Zero unless you have Xray vision. So that lie needs to be put to rest.

    Ground Zero is an eye sore and the area around it is little more than dilapidated buildings where few want to live or work. Small businesses in the area are struggling to survive and few people who live in New York seldom ever visit the site because they want to forget that dreadful day. The tourists who do visit only seem to do so out of morbid curiosity.

    Before all the hoopla, most New Yorkers either didn't care or welcomed the Mosque because it would have brought jobs, helped to rejuvenate the neighborhood, saved small businesses, and brought much needed funding and business to the area. Last spring, the local community had a four hour long heated debate and afterwords it was unanimously voted by community leaders to grant a permit for the Mosque.

    Then along came a bigoted British ex patriot, who isn't even an American made a youtube video full of hate and misinformation that went viral on the Internet. And then based on the lies, suddenly everybody cared about a hole in the ground, when before, all across the country most had forgotten and some had even spit on the 9/11 families (Anne Coulter and Glenn Beck) for playing the victim card or asking the government too many questions. And even more recently, a bill was blocked in congress that would have helped pay the medical bills of the firemen and volunteers who risked their lives to help others on 9/11. So please tell me, where was all this so called compassion and out pouring of concern for the last nine years?

    If Ground Zero is so sacred, then where are the monuments, the well manicured gardens, the names of the dead engraved in stone, the flowers and wreaths, the long lines of mourners, anything to suggest the site is sacred besides a big gaping dusty hole that hardly anyone visits and few have ever actually seen or had all but forgotten about until an Imam, with only good intentions simply wanted to build a cultural center nearby with a swimming pool, a basketball court, a community area, and a place to pray, to help bring life back to the area?

    As Americans, we need to set our hate and fear aside, and make the distinction between the terrorist organization, Al Qaeda who attacked us on 9/11 and a religion that 1.5 billion peaceful Muslims believe in. Otherwise, the 6,537 of our men and women who fought and died along side thousands of Muslims in Iraq and Afghanistan for their freedom, and the freedoms our constitution protects for all of us here at home, will be in vain and our prejudice and ignorance over this mosque will just be another victory for the terrorists.

    So I say let the Iman build his mosque so that he and his followers can prove to us that Islam is a peaceful religion and so that we too can show the world and ourselves that we are what we say we are, a freedom loving and tolerant nation.
    Eloquently stated, but don't expect it penetrate the hate filled bigotry and false rhetoric spewed by the fear merchants and the blind fools that buy their evil bile. Regressives thrive on a steady diet of prejudice, fear, hate, and discrimination. They can't survive or compete on a level playing field, so they must color others as sub-human and deny them the very rights they demand for themselves.

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Really? The Dr. Laura chick wasn't "stopped" from broadcasting her radio show on some stations without the government doing it?
    Terrible analogy.

    Dr. Laura wasn't "stopped" form doing anything. The stations just made a choice.

    For her to have been "stopped", she would have had to be in charge of the decision-making process until a third party intervened to prevent her from executuing the decision.

    In this case, the third party was always in charge of the decision making.
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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Really? The Dr. Laura chick wasn't "stopped" from broadcasting her radio show on some stations without the government doing it?
    Significantly different situation.
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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    It's like this. If the landscaper is doing a ****ty job mowing my yard, I get rid of him. I do not prevent him from mowing lawns elsewhere. Nobody has prevented "Dr." <rolls eyes> Laura from speaking. They just stopped paying her for it.

    Wah, wah, wah.....
    Last edited by Captain America; 08-20-10 at 10:31 AM.

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Terrible analogy.

    Dr. Laura wasn't "stopped" form doing anything. The stations just made a choice.

    For her to have been "stopped", she would have had to be in charge of the decision-making process until a third party intervened to prevent her from executuing the decision.

    In this case, the third party was always in charge of the decision making.
    She is no longer doing her show.

    Regardless of how it came about, her show has been stopped.

    If you'd want it slightly more accurate in a technical way, The Dr. Laura show was "stopped" rather than "Dr Laura" herself.

    Things can be "stopped" in ways other than the government involving itself. If something is being built and you get a petition of 2000 neighborhood people all saying we don't want your business here and that person decides based on that not to build his business, then his business was "Stopped" from being built. The stoppage wasn't forced on him, it wasn't mandated on him, but it stopped none the less.

    Additionally, picketing and protesting outside a business to such a point that it just can't run successfully due to the negative publicity and they give up and pack up shop and stop running it laso is "stopping" it without the government.

    My argument is simply that the notion that suggesting you hope to "stop" something doesn't mean you're wanting the government to step in and do something about it.

    Is none governmental action really likely to "stop" this mosque? Probably not. But that doesn't change the fact that people saying they hope its stopped does not necessarily automatically mean due to government action.

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