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Thread: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

  1. #121
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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    Why don't you pick up that history book I was bragging about and give me some sources. What staunch conservatives supported the civil rights movement? And remember, not "Republicans" but conservatives. Before the 1960s southern democrats had the most conservative ideologies out of anyone in America. When the northern dems became increasingly liberal and started backing the civil rights movement, the southern dems jumped ship and infiltrated the Republican party, which is why you have this ironic and contradictory ideologies of social conservatism and economic liberalism in the Republican party.

    America was built on liberalism. The idea that everyone is equal was not a traditional conservative value in Europe. Conservatives, who were originally British Loyalist who opposed the American Revolution, have been trying to resist the changes of equality ever since, but true liberals, like Abe Lincoln and JFK have pushed through that resistance to bring true equality to all Americans.
    How about Martin Luther King, Jr.

    He was no liberal, I'm afraid to tell you.

    There's a difference in supporting equal rights, and supporting swinging the pendulum so far the other way that you've ultimately created the same situation, only backward. The policies that these "liberals" you favor so much have created a society where minorities are talked down to and made so many excuses for, that they are viewed by liberals as inferior in context.

    Conservatives believe in equality. Not welfare, or governmental assistance, but true, stand-on-your-own-two-feet equality, where you are the product of your own decisions and must deal with the consequences of those decisions. Liberals provide excuses and coddling...."it's not your fault, it's the white man's fault. Vote for us, and we'll fix it." That is by definition the truest form of racism.

    You see, in your narrow mind, "conservative" is just a synonym for "racist". Until you can wedge yourself out of your Olbermann-like trance, you aren't going to get it.

  2. #122
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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    Those on this forum who oppose the mosque try to play a game of semantics. "They have the right, but that doesn't mean they should do it." Having the right to do something one wants to do means they should do it, because if they really shouldn't be doing it, then they shouldn't have the right to do it. Saying someone shouldn't do it, means that deep down inside you really believe they shouldn't have the right to do so, but you just don't want to say it.
    Like grandpappy used to say...why thats just horsehit, son...

    I have never said they cant. I have never opposed their 'right'. But just because you CAN do something doesnt mean you SHOULD do something. I dont think anyone that has a pulse and a measurable IQ should ever vote democrat...but I still acknowledge all the crippled dependent little pets their RIGHT to do so.

  3. #123
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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    My point was that someone who says "You shouldn't do that" is really saying "You shouldn't have the right to do that". They just don't want to admit it.
    Wonderful, so you don't believe people should have the right to free speech and assembly to speak out agaisnt this mosque. Thanks for showing us what your true intent is based on your logic then.

    For example, hypothetically, lets say some politician drafted a bill to tweak the first amendment so that this mosque couldn't be built, by saying something like "Any religious institution or religious entities who are affiliated with a religious institution that is currently backing, supporting or participating in a war against the United States is prohibited from building monuments or places of worship on American soil as a matter of national security." Lets again, VERY hypothetically, say there was a federal referendum for it and every citizen in the United States could vote on this. You, as well as most others on this forum who oppose the mosque, would vote yes on that bill.
    Oh boy, you should really read a good deal of my posts before you want to start telling me how or why I'd vote for something.

    I would vote no on that bill. In my mind that's against the spirit of the constitution and what this country was founded on and that the government has no business adding such a thing to the constitution. To me the constitution is to restrict the government and to proteect the rights of Americans, not to restrict those rights or give further power to the government.

    That is because you don't think they should have the right to do so.
    No, that is because you ignorantly assume you can read my mind based off a couple of posts and thus made a ridiculous accusations as if it was fact.

    But since you are trying to be politically correct and trying to pretend like you actually believe in our constitution, you give the bulls**t responses of "I think they should have the right, but that they shouldn't do it." HAHA! What sense does that make?
    LOL, you're accusing me of being politically correct and not believing in the constitution...this gets funnier by the minute.

    See, last I checked, freedom of speech and freedom of assembly were just as much part of the constitution as freedom of religion. That means I absolutely think the individuals should not be impeeded or intimidated by the government to create their mosque, and I also absolutely think the individuals speaking out against it should not be forcibly silenced or intimidated into silence by the government either.

    Personally, I think they shouldn't build the mosque there. It doesn't serve the purpose they supposedly are stating is the goal of the Mosque. It is interjecting a highly controversial situation into a location where frankly I think should be as free from such things as possible. I think they are completely acting insensitively to the thoughts and emotions of tens of thousands of people, wrongfully or not, who are being negatively effected emotionally with regards to this. I see no, legitimate, GOOD reason to have it there. And frankly I see nothing worse about suggesting that they SHOULDN'T build there even though they CAN build there than yours and others suggestions that people who feel that way are bigoted racists who SHOULD be silent.

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Not what he said and you know it. What he in fact said is 100% correct, that the US was complicit in the attack by its policies
    That's exactly what he he said that the U.S. was an accessory to the crime and that OBL was made in the USA less than 3 weeks after 9-11. That's blaming the U.S. for the attack any way you slice it.

    around the world. Anyone denying this fact is either blind, stupid or has not been following what is going on in the world for the last 50 years.
    Really what did the U.S. do in order to become an accessory to the crime of the 9-11 attacks. I understand that you hate the United States as well and share the blame the victim propaganda of the Islamists, but it it is no less disgusting coming from you than it is from them.

    He said the following
    Exactly he blamed the US in partial for 9-11.

    and he is right. Guess who else said the above (or approximately)... Glenn Beck, half of Fox News and a tons of right wing talking heads including Ron Paul. Go figure!
    A) I don't give a **** what the nutter Beck has to say.

    B) Beck never said that the US was an accessory to 9-11 nor did he say that OBL was made in the USA, called for a Sharia compliant US, or refused to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization.

    And you have this from what?
    Exact quotes from his radio appearance, the audio is available as well:


    According to the State Department's assessment, "Hamas terrorists, especially those in the Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, have conducted many attacks, including large-scale suicide bombings, against Israeli civilian and military targets."

    Asked if he agreed with the State Department's assessment, Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf told WABC radio, "Look, I'm not a politician.

    "The issue of terrorism is a very complex question," he told interviewer Aaron Klein.

    "There was an attempt in the '90s to have the UN define what terrorism is and say who was a terrorist. There was no ability to get agreement on that."

    Asked again for his opinion on Hamas, an exasperated Rauf wouldn't budge.

    "I am a peace builder. I will not allow anybody to put me in a position where I am seen by any party in the world as an adversary or as an enemy," Rauf said, insisting that he wants to see peace in Israel between Jews and Arabs.

    Rauf also would not answer a question about Egypt's outlawed Muslim Brotherhood.

    "I have nothing to do with the Muslim Brotherhood. My father was never a member of the Muslim Brotherhood," he said, disputing a rumor.

    http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/m...#ixzz0rJTKPGE6
    Here's the podcast of the WABC interview in question it starts about 13 minutes in.


    A right wing email? And it is his right under free speech to not comment on Hamas.
    And it is my right to condemn him as the Islamist that he is.

    And lets not forget, Hamas does also a lot of good (relatively speaking), by feeding, housing and giving medical care to the people of Gaza.... something no one else does or have attempted to do.
    Hamas intentionally kills babies any good that they do for propaganda purposes is outweighed by that fact alone.

    You might not like their political policies (I dont for sure), but they are filling a void on the humanitarian level that no one else is willing to fill.
    Yippy.

    Even for non Muslims?.. I doubt that very very very much. Do you have any evidence that he was a sharia compliant US?
    I don't care bottom line is he wants a Sharia Compliant US.

    At the core of Shariah law are God's commandments, revealed in the Old Testament and revised in the New Testament and the Quran. The principles behind American secular law are similar to Shariah law - that we protect life, liberty and property, that we provide for the common welfare, that we maintain a certain amount of modesty. What Muslims want is to ensure that their secular laws are not in conflict with the Quran or the Hadith, the sayings of Muhammad.

    On Faith Panelists Blog: How Islamic Law Can Work - Feisal Abdul Rauf
    He wants Sharia albeit with a less stringent penal code. But he is an Islamist not a secularist Muslim.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 08-18-10 at 05:35 PM.

  5. #125
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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Robert "KKK" Byrd was one of many "Democrats" who opposed the 1964 Civil Rights Act and even filibustered against it.

    He was laid to rest by Mr. Obama.

    When you talk about your "liberal love" we will continue to remind you of the Klansmen in your ranks.
    "Sodomy is one of the most gruesome and detested crimes, the punishment for which is also one of the harshest penalties, it is the capital punishment"
    -Imam Mukhtar K. Ahmed Al-Mesalati, author of the "QURAN And Same-Sex Behavior", c. 2009

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Yea.. they turned a room into a prayer area.. that is a mosque.. or church, or synagogue ... whatever you want to call it. Face it, it is no different than what is going on near ground zero.
    Bull****, this is not a non-denominational prayer room, it is a Mosque, if it's a community center then when will they be holding prayer services for faiths other than Islam?

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    I wonder if the reason is many Muslims and Muslim organizations were against it and spoke out.
    Or maybe the Muslims are doing it for humanitarian reasons. They don't want to be the cause of bad press and hysterical riots.

    ricksfolly

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    This is a principled comment:

    I don't care bottom line is he wants a Sharia Compliant US.

    A "Sharia compliant US" is simply an Islamic Republic, which Imam Rauf has stated he would like to see, "I see no reason why the U.S. could not be Sharia compliant." (Forbes, 2008).
    "Sodomy is one of the most gruesome and detested crimes, the punishment for which is also one of the harshest penalties, it is the capital punishment"
    -Imam Mukhtar K. Ahmed Al-Mesalati, author of the "QURAN And Same-Sex Behavior", c. 2009

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    Re: Mosque in new york to possibly move!

    Quote Originally Posted by Crunch View Post
    I have the right to protest on public property in front of your house for as long as I want to even if it disturbs you.... that is my 1st amendment right, and it appears to me that you want to take that right from me..... Why?

    I have the right but you don't support me. The Imam has the right and you do support him. Totally illogical.
    In the given scenario, you just come on down and throw up your picket signs if you wish. But after the threat for which was the origin of your protest is over, I will have you arrested for disorderly conduct and disturbing the peace. That is MY right to disband your now unlawful "peaceful assembly". You really don't want to play this game of legal roulette with someone who works in public health and deals with these types of issues everyday. Now, stop wasting my time and focus on the thread topic at hand, shall we?

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    Re: Ground Zero Mosque On The Move?

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny DooWop View Post
    In case you didn't know GayLib, if it weren't for liberals, slavery would still exist in the United States, women wouldn't still be allowed to vote, the civil rights movement would have never happened and gays wouldn't be able to marry in 5 U.S. states and soon to be six (CA). Do you think it was conservatives who were behind all of those movements? HA! The history of the conservative movements in this country have always had one agenda, to keep White, Christian, heterosexual Males at the top of the American hierarchy and to discriminate against everyone else.

    You sir, need to learn a little more about politics.
    Nothing in that paragraph has anything to do with the modern American left save for the last one. Nice try though.

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