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Thread: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

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    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    I have to agree with Don that the threat is being trumped-up my Mr. Bolten. A question though, why is it that our policy on Iran has not changed in the last 30 years? The US supported the Shah, who's tyranny and cruelty gave rise to the revolution that ended US-Iranian relations, and yet we remain steadfast against having regular diplomacy with them, which may have avoided these developments. We engage China, yet Iran has remained sanctioned and isolated for all of these years of which actual talks may have prevented things going this far. Just a thought.

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    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    In all seriousness though I must agree with Dan, they probably already have them. Which begs the question why we went into Iraq when they weren't even close to getting them, but we've left North Korea and Iran to their own devices.
    I would probably say because our true strategy had little to do with WMD's and they were attempting not to broadcast said strategy everywhere over the airlines.

    The strategy seemed to be hoping to set up a democratic center in the middle east for a two fold purpose. First, hoping that an actual muslim majority country embracing Democracy could potentially help cause a spread of western ideology and beliefs regarding government throughout the Middle East fostering over time a different mentality that would move away from the radicalized islamic terrorism present there. Second, by essentially gaining an "Ally" in Iraq the U.S. would have a country that is smack dab in the middle of the ME with borders on the various "more likely" threats to the U.S. and its allies such as Iran and Syria as well as access to Pakistan and Afghanistan. It seemed it was their belief that this was going to be unquestionable a lengthy war with numerous battles and Iraq was to provide the first step and strategic move within it.

    With a plethora of U.N. sanctions which were arguably being or had been violated by Iraq that authorized additional force if needed plus a fair bit of intelligence and statements dating back to even the previous administration in regards to the likelihood of Sadam and WMD's, Iraq presented the best possability for actually legally justifying a war. Add in the loose but questionable ties to Al-Qaeda mixed with the obvious state sponsoring of Terror in other places by Sadam and you have your easy tie in with the notion of the "War on Terror" and going after "state sponsors of Terror". The justification was not as clear with Iran, both on a selling it to the public stand point or on the legal/international stand point.

    Now, we could argue all day whether or not the "spread democracy" idea is sound or feasable, or whether or not the U.N. resolution were violated. We could argue all day over whether or not the war on Terror was wise or how good the intelligence was. However I think its reasonable to suggest that the very fact there's a debate over the U.N. resolutions at least provides something more of a justification than Iran, where action would've had no real U.N. justification to my knowledge. Ultimately, I think Iraq was done for strategic and logistical reasons more than anything else

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    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I would probably say because our true strategy had little to do with WMD's and they were attempting not to broadcast said strategy everywhere over the airlines.

    The strategy seemed to be hoping to set up a democratic center in the middle east for a two fold purpose. First, hoping that an actual muslim majority country embracing Democracy could potentially help cause a spread of western ideology and beliefs regarding government throughout the Middle East fostering over time a different mentality that would move away from the radicalized islamic terrorism present there. Second, by essentially gaining an "Ally" in Iraq the U.S. would have a country that is smack dab in the middle of the ME with borders on the various "more likely" threats to the U.S. and its allies such as Iran and Syria as well as access to Pakistan and Afghanistan. It seemed it was their belief that this was going to be unquestionable a lengthy war with numerous battles and Iraq was to provide the first step and strategic move within it.

    With a plethora of U.N. sanctions which were arguably being or had been violated by Iraq that authorized additional force if needed plus a fair bit of intelligence and statements dating back to even the previous administration in regards to the likelihood of Sadam and WMD's, Iraq presented the best possability for actually legally justifying a war. Add in the loose but questionable ties to Al-Qaeda mixed with the obvious state sponsoring of Terror in other places by Sadam and you have your easy tie in with the notion of the "War on Terror" and going after "state sponsors of Terror". The justification was not as clear with Iran, both on a selling it to the public stand point or on the legal/international stand point.

    Now, we could argue all day whether or not the "spread democracy" idea is sound or feasable, or whether or not the U.N. resolution were violated. We could argue all day over whether or not the war on Terror was wise or how good the intelligence was. However I think its reasonable to suggest that the very fact there's a debate over the U.N. resolutions at least provides something more of a justification than Iran, where action would've had no real U.N. justification to my knowledge. Ultimately, I think Iraq was done for strategic and logistical reasons more than anything else
    I strongly agree with this assessment and feel that it is the only logical purpose to invading Iraq. All reports from inspectors prior to the invasion suggested that Iraq's WMD program was in shambles at best, and non-existent in all reality. However, the possibility indeed presented the best route to gaining a ME stronghold and potential ally in the region.

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    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by bub View Post
    I don't think Iran is much more powerful than Iraq, but that's gonna be a huge chaos, the war would extend from Israel to Afghanistan.
    Much larger country with more people who are very nationalistic unlike Iraqis. After all Iran has existed for 3000+ years and Iranians are very proud of that fact. That is also why no minor start up nation like the US will dictate or interfere with their policies.
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    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I have to agree with Don that the threat is being trumped-up my Mr. Bolten. A question though, why is it that our policy on Iran has not changed in the last 30 years? The US supported the Shah, who's tyranny and cruelty gave rise to the revolution that ended US-Iranian relations, and yet we remain steadfast against having regular diplomacy with them, which may have avoided these developments. We engage China, yet Iran has remained sanctioned and isolated for all of these years of which actual talks may have prevented things going this far. Just a thought.
    I am guessing it will take about 70 years for the US to forget the hostage crisis in Tehran. That after all was how long it took the US public to forget the death of American's during the uprisings in China during the first part of the 20th century.. there too American's were taken hostage (or under siege) and killed as far as I remember.

    But saying that, Iranians have far longer memories than a mere 70 years... they can go centuries with a grudge.
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    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I have to agree with Don that the threat is being trumped-up my Mr. Bolten. A question though, why is it that our policy on Iran has not changed in the last 30 years? The US supported the Shah, who's tyranny and cruelty gave rise to the revolution that ended US-Iranian relations, and yet we remain steadfast against having regular diplomacy with them, which may have avoided these developments. We engage China, yet Iran has remained sanctioned and isolated for all of these years of which actual talks may have prevented things going this far. Just a thought.
    Why, you ask? Ever hear of the American hostages that were held and tortured for over a year? Ever hear of the Kobar Towers in Saudi Arabia? That's why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Why, you ask? Ever hear of the American hostages that were held and tortured for over a year? Ever hear of the Kobar Towers in Saudi Arabia? That's why.
    Of course, but Vietnam was not that long ago and Bush established trade with them. Were Americans not captured and tortured there?

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    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Why, you ask? Ever hear of the American hostages that were held and tortured for over a year? Ever hear of the Kobar Towers in Saudi Arabia? That's why.
    And the hundreds of thousands of Iranians who were murdered by the Shah and his secret police. A secret police trained by the CIA and former Nazi officers in various methods of inflicting pain. And a regime put in power by the US and UK to protect the oil interests of private companies in the country, and stealing billions from Iran. Stuff like that come back to haunt you..., so...so what if a few American's were held hostage and maybe tortured (debatable). It after all put your hero Ronald Reagan in the white house.. you should be thanking them!

    As for the Khobar Towers bombing.. yea was convenient that the Iranians were blamed by the FBI... Then again you did shoot one of their civilian airlines out of the sky killing 290 people...
    PeteEU

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    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I don't know what you have been smoking, but most Jews in the United States, especially in the Northeast, happen to be Liberal.

    .

    and Israel is a little island of liberalism in a sea of backwardness.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    Of course, but Vietnam was not that long ago and Bush established trade with them. Were Americans not captured and tortured there?
    That's right, they were. They still have the remains of American service members that they refuse to release to us, too. I opposed establishing trade with Vietnam. They should be cut off, just like North Korea.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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