Page 14 of 15 FirstFirst ... 412131415 LastLast
Results 131 to 140 of 148

Thread: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

  1. #131
    Sage
    Khayembii Communique's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Milwaukee, WI
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,883

    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    It? You really think there is only one site?
    I was referring to the reactor, which is what they would have to take out to prevent it from going online...
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  2. #132
    Equal Opportunity Hater
    obvious Child's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    0.0, -2.3 on the Political Compass
    Last Seen
    12-09-14 @ 11:36 PM
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    19,883

    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamaYoMoma View Post
    Not only that but people assuming MAD will work with respect to Iran are applying their own Western sensibilities to Muslims and Muslims donít even remotely see the world the same way those people do. Good post!
    Okay, tell me if the Mullahs are so crazy, why is their economic planning models derived solely to support their continued power?

    If they are so crazy, why do they run cost vs benefit analysis on projects?

    If they are so anti-Jew, why haven't they exterminated their growing population of 20,000 Jews?

    Nothing the Mullahs have actually done suggest insanity. They gave in to peace when they lost the upper hand in their war with Iraq. They use subsidies to increase public support. They have systematic ally placed all vital assets in the hands of their most loyal soldiers.

    Your views are based on what they say. Not what they have done. Looking at how they fight Israel is sufficent proof to show that they are far from insane but instead subscribe to the same military principles taught in Western armies on how to fight a superior enemy.

    Words mean nothing.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #133
    Banned
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Last Seen
    01-03-16 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    12,761

    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Nobody in their right mind should want to wage war against Iran... I DARE anyone that thinks Iran is a threat to actually READ THE TRANSCRIPTS of any ahminedjad (sp?)'s speeches rather then what it gets spun into by the media...

    I sincerely doubt that any Iranian nuclear activity is, at this point at least, anything more then for peaceful energy generation because Iran lacks the refining capacity for their oil and is dependant on gas imports for its refining capacity.

    This is not to say that Iran are the 'good guys' in this, they run a tyrannical system over there... just that they are not any sort of 'threat' and they are not nearly the 'crazed muslims' that they are being made out to be. US influence has seen Irans government replaced multiple times in recent history, and diplomatically, Iran has been doing everything humanly possible to satisfy the presidency. Offering to have it's nuclear fuel under the care of many different countries... even telling the US, 'fine, YOU refine our uranium so that you know it can only be used for power generation'... of course the US wouldn't agree, the powers that be WANT WAR in the middle east...

    How about instead of debating on 'whether or not we should wage war with Iran'... why don't we as the question : "Why do the powers that be so eagerly want war with Iran??"

    So, if you have any religious tendencies, I would urge you to pray that this war not begin,

    Now, if you support going to war with Iran, first, can you point to it on a map? Ok... just making sure. Now, think about this for a moment, the army is out winning many battles in that region, but it is a long way from winning any war. These middle eastern countries still believe in the concept of 'honor'... meaning, if the US kills their wife, child, goat, whatever... he is then honor bound to kill you or die trying... it's simply part of the culture for many in that region.

    Also, consider, it took decades of 'oil for food', sanctions, etc before Iraq had been prepped to be taken over, and we still can't claim, or even define conditions for victory there, well, anything deeper then some useless catch-phrase. Iran holds a much closer to 'independant' status, look at Irans history of war... then consider the waterways that the Iranians could block off and hold closed for months... that alone would conservatively double the cost of oil within the week.

    So, we're in the middle of a massive depression (if you still believe this is a 'recession on the rebound' you're deluding yourself or have been lied to), We can't AFFORD a war like this... we don't even have any productive capacity LEFT in this country, we must outsource these things courtesy of globalization. So, if you do allow ourselves to be taken to war by these, what can only be described as, psychopaths "justify" why Iran is so dangerous where you know the person is lying cause the lips are moving.

    There are numerous EXPERTS around the world that openly will tell you that an attack on Iran WILL lead to a world war 3 level conflict... it will become inevitable. Meanwhile, the country will fall apart on its own weight.

  4. #134
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Seen
    08-23-10 @ 02:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    81

    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Okay, tell me if the Mullahs are so crazy, why is their economic planning models derived solely to support their continued power?

    If they are so crazy, why do they run cost vs benefit analysis on projects?
    UhÖI donít know common sense? Actually if they had common sense they would drop the command economy routine and go to a more Laissez faire kind of economic model.

    If they are so anti-Jew, why haven't they exterminated their growing population of 20,000 Jews?
    Because those Jews are living under submission, whereas the Jews in Israel are living on what is re-established Dar al Harb on formerly Dar al Islam. Hence, as long as those Jews living in Iran submit to the authority of Islam, they should be okay, but there is no guarantee, as the Muslims could easily revoke the Dhimma contract at any time and decide to slaughter those Jews. In fact, the entire purpose of the Dhimma contract is to eventually convert the subjugated infidels to Islam, but if after several centuries none or very few of them converts to Islam, then the Dhimma contract could arbitrarily be revoked and those Jews slaughtered. Itís happened countless times in the past.

    Nothing the Mullahs have actually done suggest insanity. They gave in to peace when they lost the upper hand in their war with Iraq. They use subsidies to increase public support. They have systematic ally placed all vital assets in the hands of their most loyal soldiers.
    Who has been accusing them of being stupid? Islam isnít a recipe for stupidness or a suicide pact.

    Your views are based on what they say.
    Not quite. My views unlike yours are based on intense study of Islam and Muslims. In addition, I really could care less what they say, since most of what they say publicly is intended to deceive. Which is why I watch what they do.

    Looking at how they fight Israel is sufficent proof to show that they are far from insane but instead subscribe to the same military principles taught in Western armies on how to fight a superior enemy.
    The only one Iíve seen so for accusing them of being insane is you? Moreover, while they employ Western principles and Western weapons, they are still Muslims. Thus, when they fight jihad they will emulate Muhammad, meaning anything goes and nothing is off the table. However, Iranís modus operandi is to try to maintain plausible deniability whenever possible through the use of proxies.

  5. #135
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,691

    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamaYoMoma View Post
    Yeah right! That sounds a lot like the same kinds of lame assurances I was hearing from the State Department when Carter negotiated that deal with the N. Koreans. Everyone knew what inevitably was going to happen except Carter, the State Department, and Clinton. You must think I was born yesterday and fell off the turnip truck this morning.
    This weekend will provide the first test with respect to risk perceptions. I fully expect that when Monday dawns, Mr. Bolton's "deadline" will have been ignored both by the U.S. and Israel. Neither state believes the pivotal turning point is just days away. No senior leader from either state has even hinted at support for the Bolton idea.

    In fact, there's an article in this morning's New York Times suggesting that based on information the U.S. has furnished, the U.S. and Israel are in agreement that Iran could not make a so-called "nuclear dash" for at least a year. To those who have followed various intelligence assessments, that fits squarely on the fairway of the 1-3 year window that has been mentioned widely. Some excerpts from The New York Times:

    Now, American and Israeli officials believe breakout is unlikely anytime soon. For one thing, Iran, which claims it is interested in enriching uranium only for peaceful purposes, would be forced to build nuclear bombs from a limited supply of nuclear material, currently enough for two weapons. Second, such a decision would require kicking out international weapons inspectors, eliminating any ambiguity about Iran’s nuclear plans...

    Israeli officials have indicated that if they saw a race for the bomb under way, they would probably take military action and encourage the United States to join the effort.


    So much for the idea that after August 21, Israel would find itself unable to take military action. As noted earlier, if Israel believes it is confronted by an existential threat, it will take the military action it feels is necessary to try to reduce or eliminate that threat. No responsible leader would forego such action if he or she felt that was the only option to try to secure the survival of his or her people. In sum, there's nothing about August 21 that bars future military action nor places Iran on a trajectory that would give it a nuclear arms capability within days. Not surprisingly, August 21 will pass quietly. The critical moment for launching any possible military action--not fully assured--is still 6-9 months away (maybe longer).
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 08-20-10 at 08:04 AM.

  6. #136
    free market communist
    Gardener's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    09-30-17 @ 12:27 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    26,661

    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post

    If they are so anti-Jew, why haven't they exterminated their growing population of 20,000 Jews?
    That you would refer to a population that numbered around 80,000 in the mid seventies as "growing" to 20,0000 today indicates an agenda at work.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

  7. #137
    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
    Apocalypse's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Israel
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 06:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    17,196

    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by Gardener View Post
    That you would refer to a population that numbered around 80,000 in the mid seventies as "growing" to 20,0000 today indicates an agenda at work.
    And apparently the only form of anti-Semitism is the extermination of every single Jew.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  8. #138
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Seen
    08-23-10 @ 02:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    81

    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by BmanMcfly View Post
    Nobody in their right mind should want to wage war against Iran... I DARE anyone that thinks Iran is a threat to actually READ THE TRANSCRIPTS of any ahminedjad (sp?)'s speeches rather then what it gets spun into by the media...

    I sincerely doubt that any Iranian nuclear activity is, at this point at least, anything more then for peaceful energy generation because Iran lacks the refining capacity for their oil and is dependant on gas imports for its refining capacity.
    Without jumping through hoops to go into specific details you apparently arenít aware of or most probably are deliberately ignoring, you can sincerely doubt the obvious all you want, but donít believe everyone else is going to dismiss the obvious like you. Not to mention that this isnít remotely like the Saddam situation. So get over yourself. For one thing, both the Bush and Obama administrations have allowed Iran to kill American soldiers with impunity in both Iraq and Afghanistan, which alone is more than enough justification for war, and after Iran gets nukes the USA will pay a very severe price for letting those travesties go without very severe repercussions.

    Moreover the lack of refining capacity and the reason they let their oil infrastructure fall into such a state of disrepair is because of mismanagement and also because they used the bulk of their oil revenues to pursue nuclear weapons and to finance and fund jihad per their Khomeiniest revolution. Nevertheless, the ruling Mullahs are acutely aware of their weaknesses and are taking steps to rectify them, as six refineries are currently under construction and they also just concluded a deal with Brazil to purchase ethanol to blend with their gasoline. Also, Russia just agreed to sell them gasoline as well. In addition, they have converted a significant portion of their military vehicles to operate on natural gas.

    Indeed, we should have ousted the ruling Mullahs years ago, as they have been using first feckless European diplomacy and now feckless Obama administration diplomacy to buy valuable time to not only continue developing nuclear weapons and long range missiles, but also to harden their underground facilities and to build up their defenses. Which is a travesty because any war in the future thanks to our previous and current leaderís incompetence, ineptness, and fecklessness will be exponentially far bloodier and destructive than it had to be.

    Indeed, when diplomacy with terrorists, which in itself is literally insane, ran its course, instead of ousting the terrorists, we started another new round of diplomacy with the same terrorists, buying them more and more valuable time and it just doesnít get any more insane, inept, and incompetent than that, all the while that Iran was able to kill American soldiers in both Iraq and Afghanistan, pursue nuclear weapons and long range missiles, pursue an illegal war of aggression against the Israelis via its proxies, and violate UNSCR 1701 all with impunity.

    And what is the Obama administration doing today to stop the Iranians? Nothing! They are trying to coerce Israel into committing national suicide via negotiations with an unelected official from the PA that has zero authority and is only still in business because it is being protected by the IDF, all the while Hamas in Gaza and Hezbollah on Israelís southern flank are dedicated to the complete annihilation of Israel regardless of any so-called fake peace agreement that could be reached, and then the Obama administration wonders why a growing number of American people believes that Obama is a Muslim. Not to mention that the start up of Bushehr to coincide with US troop withdrawal from Iraq and the coercion of Israel to negotiate with the PA obviously have all been very carefully timed and coordinated by the Obama administration.

    Now with respect to the remainder of what you wrote, sorry, it is little more than useless and absurd garbage.

  9. #139
    Banned
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Last Seen
    08-23-10 @ 02:03 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    81

    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    This weekend will provide the first test with respect to risk perceptions. I fully expect that when Monday dawns, Mr. Bolton's "deadline" will have been ignored both by the U.S. and Israel. Neither state believes the pivotal turning point is just days away. No senior leader from either state has even hinted at support for the Bolton idea.

    In fact, there's an article in this morning's New York Times suggesting that based on information the U.S. has furnished, the U.S. and Israel are in agreement that Iran could not make a so-called "nuclear dash" for at least a year. To those who have followed various intelligence assessments, that fits squarely on the fairway of the 1-3 year window that has been mentioned widely. Some excerpts from The New York Times:

    Now, American and Israeli officials believe breakout is unlikely anytime soon. For one thing, Iran, which claims it is interested in enriching uranium only for peaceful purposes, would be forced to build nuclear bombs from a limited supply of nuclear material, currently enough for two weapons. Second, such a decision would require kicking out international weapons inspectors, eliminating any ambiguity about Iranís nuclear plans...

    Israeli officials have indicated that if they saw a race for the bomb under way, they would probably take military action and encourage the United States to join the effort.


    So much for the idea that after August 21, Israel would find itself unable to take military action. As noted earlier, if Israel believes it is confronted by an existential threat, it will take the military action it feels is necessary to try to reduce or eliminate that threat. No responsible leader would forego such action if he or she felt that was the only option to try to secure the survival of his or her people. In sum, there's nothing about August 21 that bars future military action nor places Iran on a trajectory that would give it a nuclear arms capability within days. Not surprisingly, August 21 will pass quietly. The critical moment for launching any possible military action--not fully assured--is still 6-9 months away (maybe longer).
    You can stick with the New York Slimes, I prefer to stick with John Boltonís assessment because like him I have practically zero confidence in our Leftist hijacked intelligence departments. After all remember it was a slam-dunk that Saddam had WMD right? However, I couldnít help noticing previous intelligence assessments of 3 to 5 years away from a nuclear weapon all of a sudden have been reduced to as little as a year away now. How very interesting. Not to mention, how do we know that Iran doesnít have any secret nuclear facilities we donít know about?

    Nevertheless, when the Bushehr nuclear facility becomes operational, Iran will now have two paths to nuclear weapons, and Israel canít destroy Bushehr without contaminating Iran and the entire Persian Gulf region with nuclear fallout. Yep, lets continue ďjust in timeĒ (JIT) diplomacy because it is working perfectly, for Iran that is.

    Not to mention also that I canít help but notice the timing of this article all of a sudden appearing in the New York Slimes by strange coincidence to coincide perfectly with US troop withdrawals from Iraq, the Bushehr nuclear facility startup, and the full court press to coerce Israel to negotiate with the powerless and unelected PA all at the same time. Of course, none of this is related or was very carefully planned and coordinated, right? Yeah right.

    Hereís another reason why the New York Slimes is little more than a convenient outlet for the deceptive Obama administration:

    To block Iranís nuclear ambitions, the United States and the European Union recently imposed harsh economic sanctions aimed at choking off Iranís energy supplies and prohibiting foreign banks from doing business with financial institutions inside the country.

    Everyone that is halfway paying attention knows that those harsh economic sanctions are little more than a joke intended to deceive the majority of the America people into believing everything is being done that can be done to stop Iran and protect the American people.

  10. #140
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    Today @ 12:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,691

    Re: Israel has '8 days' to hit Iran nuclear site: Bolton

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamaYoMoma View Post
    However, I couldn’t help noticing previous intelligence assessments of 3 to 5 years away from a nuclear weapon all of a sudden have been reduced to as little as a year away now. How very interesting.
    Not at all. The passage of time will do that. If Iran were on a steady trajectory that would allow it to develop a nuclear weapons capability within 3-5 years from 2008, in 2010, the assessments would point to a 1-3-year timeframe if that trajectory were maintained.

    Not to mention, how do we know that Iran doesn’t have any secret nuclear facilities we don’t know about?
    We don't. In fact, in Message #57 I noted the threat posed by uranium enrichment facilities, including secret ones. Taking some of the available time that remains before a decision must be made whether to attack to carry out intelligence work aimed at locating any secret facilities would allow for a more effective outcome.

    Nevertheless, when the Bushehr nuclear facility becomes operational, Iran will now have two paths to nuclear weapons, and Israel can’t destroy Bushehr without contaminating Iran and the entire Persian Gulf region with nuclear fallout.
    As the article from The New York Times noted, Israel's officials don't accept the immunity argument. If Israel sees Iran making an attempt at a nuclear breakout, Israel would probably attack. I believe Israel's officials are in a position to speak about how they perceive their options and it is clear that they don't buy the argument that August 21 is the "drop dead" date for military action after which they would have no military options.

    To block Iran’s nuclear ambitions, the United States and the European Union recently imposed harsh economic sanctions aimed at choking off Iran’s energy supplies and prohibiting foreign banks from doing business with financial institutions inside the country.
    As noted in message #25, the current sanctions regime is ineffectual. None of the sanctions in place can reasonably be described as "harsh." A crippling sanctions regime would entail barring the sale of Iranian crude oil on world markets and/or barring the sale of all refined petroleum products to Iran. Current sanctions don't even approach such criteria.

    Furthermore, the financial sanctions are all but useless. Iran's financial system is not highly connected/linked to the U.S., European, and global systems. Linkages are few. Iran does not need them to conduct trade with its major partners. Severing those linkages will only have a mild impact, if that.

Page 14 of 15 FirstFirst ... 412131415 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •