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Thread: US breast cancer drug decision 'marks start of death panels'

  1. #11
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    Re: US breast cancer drug decision 'marks start of death panels'

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Actually it is your HMO and insurance company's .. and they would most likely also say no.
    Of course they'll say no if the govt forbids the drug approval via the FDA.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Fine. Spend your money. But not mine.
    Can't. The FDA removed approval for the drug.

    And, this whole "spend your money not mine" is the whole ****ing reason why people don't want public healthcare. THIS is precisely the reason. They will put a price on everyone's head. They already DO.

    I'm not sure that's where we are. Pharma is profit-motivated -- not quality-of-life motivated -- strictly the bottom line. Believe me, Harry, extending someone's life by a month makes no sense -- for the family, for the patient, or for society as a whole. It's, as usual, all about the money.
    It's not anyone's place to determine that but the patient. Most assuredly not the government's job. Which is why so many of us oppose govt provided healthcare. Because THEN is will become their job to determine if we're worthy of living any longer.

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    Re: US breast cancer drug decision 'marks start of death panels'

    If one references the actual report, one finds nothing to do with so-called "death panels." Instead, the FDA explained with respect to its findings on Avastin (Bevacizumab):

    Based on a mature analysis, there was no improvement in overall survival...

    Although the addition of bevacizumab to paclitaxel resulted in a significant improvement in PFS, this did not translate into an improvement in overall survival. The review team did not have confidence in the PFS results because baseline or PFS-determining radiographic scans were missing in 10% of the patients and 34% of the patients were not followed until an IRRC-determined PFS event or the end of the study. In addition, there was a high rate of discordance (50%) between investigator and independent review determined PFS events. Toxicity was increased with the addition of bevacizumab to paclitaxel. There was a 20% higher incidence of grade 3-5 toxicity, including unique toxicities attributed to bevacizumab, and a 1.7% treatment related death in the bevacizumab plus paclitaxel arm.


    Notes:
    1. Bevacizumab = Avastin
    2. PFS = progression free survival

  3. #13
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    Re: US breast cancer drug decision 'marks start of death panels'

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    What does it matter if they are profit motivated?
    That is how things get done. Most problems don't get solved with warm fuzzy feelings. Whether we like or not, the biggest advances in humanity have been done with free enterprise. Not burgeoning, centralized bodies making decisions for you.
    I totally agree about free enterprise. I'm with ya'. But somebody's got to step up and say ENUF! when it comes to these "supposed" life-extending drugs. The push-down marketing strategy pharma uses is disgraceful. "Ask your doctor about...." ads in print and on TV. "Here, buy this new brand-name drug instead of the generic one your doctor's been prescribing. We've added aspirin to ours."

    I think once a person has seen first-hand these supposed life-extending treatments, they have a better handle on the whole debate.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: US breast cancer drug decision 'marks start of death panels'

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Actually it is your HMO and insurance company's .. and they would most likely also say no.
    It appears this is being done because of Obama care

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    Re: US breast cancer drug decision 'marks start of death panels'

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I totally agree about free enterprise. I'm with ya'. But somebody's got to step up and say ENUF! when it comes to these "supposed" life-extending drugs. The push-down marketing strategy pharma uses is disgraceful. "Ask your doctor about...." ads in print and on TV. "Here, buy this new brand-name drug instead of the generic one your doctor's been prescribing. We've added aspirin to ours."
    We certainly need more discriminating consumers but I think this is the wrong way to go about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I think once a person has seen first-hand these supposed life-extending treatments, they have a better handle on the whole debate.
    My grandmother was diagnosed with breast cancer in her late 70's and lived to her early 80's.
    Now from a cost effectiveness stand point, they should of provided no treatment because she was elderly.

    That is the pure cost effectiveness of it.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: US breast cancer drug decision 'marks start of death panels'

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Of course they'll say no if the govt forbids the drug approval via the FDA.


    Can't. The FDA removed approval for the drug.
    If your doctor asks that the drug be allowed, it can be used. It's a "process," but it can happen.

    And, this whole "spend your money not mine" is the whole ****ing reason why people don't want public healthcare. THIS is precisely the reason. They will put a price on everyone's head. They already DO.
    Are you naive enough to believe that insurance companies haven't been making these decisions? Medicare is government-run. My mom's on it. She's 83. She gets the finest medical care science has to offer -- no holds barred.

    It's not anyone's place to determine that but the patient. Most assuredly not the government's job. Which is why so many of us oppose govt provided healthcare. Because THEN is will become their job to determine if we're worthy of living any longer.
    The patient knows jack. The patient is led along by the nose to the decision the doctor thinks is best. And very often, the patient isn't even given the unbiased facts to make an unbiased decision.

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    If one references the actual report, one finds nothing to do with so-called "death panels." Instead, the FDA explained with respect to its findings on Avastin (Bevacizumab):

    Based on a mature analysis, there was no improvement in overall survival...

    Although the addition of bevacizumab to paclitaxel resulted in a significant improvement in PFS, this did not translate into an improvement in overall survival. The review team did not have confidence in the PFS results because baseline or PFS-determining radiographic scans were missing in 10% of the patients and 34% of the patients were not followed until an IRRC-determined PFS event or the end of the study. In addition, there was a high rate of discordance (50%) between investigator and independent review determined PFS events. Toxicity was increased with the addition of bevacizumab to paclitaxel. There was a 20% higher incidence of grade 3-5 toxicity, including unique toxicities attributed to bevacizumab, and a 1.7% treatment related death in the bevacizumab plus paclitaxel arm.


    Notes:
    1. Bevacizumab = Avastin
    2. PFS = progression free survival
    Please, Donald, do not try to derail this emotional topic with facts.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: US breast cancer drug decision 'marks start of death panels'

    I've hated the ****ing FDA every since they pulled my Vioxx. The ****ers. The more I hear about what they do, the more of a waste of govt money I think they are.

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    Re: US breast cancer drug decision 'marks start of death panels'

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    If your doctor asks that the drug be allowed, it can be used. It's a "process," but it can happen.
    Depends on what restrictions the FDA puts in place.

    Are you naive enough to believe that insurance companies haven't been making these decisions? Medicare is government-run. My mom's on it. She's 83. She gets the finest medical care science has to offer -- no holds barred.
    Insurance companies only make decisions about what they will pay for.
    And don't even get me started on Medicare. My time as a medical professional makes me gag at the "quality of care" medicaid and medicare patients receive. Not to mention the rampant abuse of the system and the waste of money.

    The patient knows jack. The patient is led along by the nose to the decision the doctor thinks is best. And very often, the patient isn't even given the unbiased facts to make an unbiased decision.
    Their life, their body, their decision. Despite your assumptions of their intelligence. Your attitude is exactly why we shouldn't have govt run healthcare. Take the choice away from the patient because they're too ****ing stupid to make decisions for themselves. Lovely.

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    Re: US breast cancer drug decision 'marks start of death panels'

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Please, Donald, do not try to derail this emotional topic with facts.
    That's fine if that is the real reason.
    No problems if it really doesn't work for that but the FDA is a seedy organization.
    Making seemingly rash judgments for some drugs both positive and negative.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: US breast cancer drug decision 'marks start of death panels'

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Depends on what restrictions the FDA puts in place.
    Yes, of course it does. What other system would you have in place? "I can use whatever I want for whatever condition I want, and my insurance company has to pay for it." Really? No, I mean, really?

    And don't even get me started on Medicare. My time as a medical professional makes me gag at the "quality of care" medicaid and medicare patients receive. Not to mention the rampant abuse of the system and the waste of money.
    I repeat. My mom is on Medicare and she gets the finest medical treatment available today. Rampant abuse, yeppers. Waste of money, yeppers. Fix that.

    Their life, their body, their decision. Despite your assumptions of their intelligence. Your attitude is exactly why we shouldn't have govt run healthcare. Take the choice away from the patient because they're too ****ing stupid to make decisions for themselves. Lovely.
    Ridiculous. People have noooo idea what treatments are effective...what the side effects are...they are led merrily on their way by their healthcare providers. They're not stupid. They're just not doctors. Or scientists.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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