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Thread: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    What concerns me about some of these comments is that they are very similar to those made by segregationists during the civil rights struggle. Should states have had the right to decide segregation?!!!!!!!!!
    States did have the right to decide segregation. They did so via amendment of the constitution and the enactment of legislation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberhwk View Post
    But when this "most liberal appelate court in the country" DOES rule (most likey that Prop-8 DOES violate Equal Protection and Due Process, I haven't heard a single expert come up with a resonable arguement why they wouldn't), it would legalize gay marriage in California. And Washington. And Oregon. And Arizona. And Idaho. And Montana. And Nevada.

    In fact this is probably WORSE news for Prop-8 supporters because, to me at least, it signals an intent for this "most liberal" court to take on the case.
    The appeal to the 9th Circuit was of right, so they were always going to take on the case.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    States did have the right to decide segregation. They did so via amendment of the constitution and the enactment of legislation.
    Me thinks you may be confussing segregation (Brown v. Board of Education) with slavery (13th Ammendment).

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The appeal to the 9th Circuit was of right, so they were always going to take on the case.
    Sounds to me like they're still not completely convinced:

    Quote Originally Posted by 9th Circuit
    In addition to any issues appellants wish to raise on appeal, the appellants are directed to include in their opening brief a discussion of why this appeal should not be dismissed for lack of Article III standing. See Arizonans For Official English v. Arizona, 520 U.S. 43, 66 (1997).
    That's not to say I don't feel the stay was correct. I think allowing how many thousands of marriages to be stuck in legal limbo if, by chance, this ruling is overturned, is probably a pretty good reason to not let them happen until we've got this decided.
    Last edited by Cyberhwk; 08-17-10 at 01:51 AM.
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by zip98053 View Post
    If you don't mind my jumping in, where was this legal argument? I've not seen anything on this thread that looks even remotely based on legal scholarship.
    Few posts back.. I answered a question posed by the judge; Walker, that asked why the state had a vesting interest in heterosexual marriage, that is not the same for homosexual marriage.


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    Last edited by Hicup; 08-17-10 at 01:58 AM.
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Like I said....bigots expressed reasons why they didn't want blacks marrying whites or blacks drinking out of their drinking fountains. Their arguments were no better than your failed argument. Yet, similarly, they didn't view themseleves as bigots either because they believed that they were justified.

    That's the thing about bigots....they look in the mirror and don't recognize themselves.
    Except, of course, that black people are black.. They are innately black, immutable even. Gay's not so, eh? My argument would not work against a black person, nor do I claim it would, so it's not "exactly" the same is it?




    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by zip98053 View Post
    Me thinks you may be confussing segregation (Brown v. Board of Education) with slavery (13th Ammendment).
    No, I'm not.

    Brown v. Board was based on the EPC of the 14th Amendment, which was added to the constitution by the states.
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberhwk View Post
    Sounds to me like they're still not completely convinced:
    Thank you, I forgot about the standing question.

    That's not to say I don't feel the stay was correct. I think allowing how many thousands of marriages to be stuck in legal limbo if, by chance, this ruling is overturned, is probably a pretty good reason to not let them happen until we've got this decided.
    This is my thinking as well.
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    No, I'm not.

    Brown v. Board was based on the EPC of the 14th Amendment, which was added to the constitution by the states.
    And, yet, segregation was the norm for nearly 100 years after the 14th until the SCOTUS said that there was no such thing as separate AND equal. That is, the EPC did not eliminate segregation until Brown. It wasn't the Amendment that ended segregation, it was the interpretation of the Amendment that ended it. Similarly, it is not simply the words of the Constitution that matter, it is the interpretation.

    My observation, myopoic as it might be, is that when people say they want a "strict" interpretation of the Constitution what they mean is that they want an interpretation that agrees with what they think.

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by zip98053 View Post
    And, yet, segregation was the norm for nearly 100 years after the 14th until the SCOTUS said that there was no such thing as separate AND equal. That is, the EPC did not eliminate segregation until Brown. It wasn't the Amendment that ended segregation, it was the interpretation of the Amendment that ended it. Similarly, it is not simply the words of the Constitution that matter, it is the interpretation.

    My observation, myopoic as it might be, is that when people say they want a "strict" interpretation of the Constitution what they mean is that they want an interpretation that agrees with what they think.
    But gays are separate, and unequal in terms of a vested state interest. I know that makes some people that are unable to think deeply, very ill, but it is the truth.


    Tim-
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Many pro SSM people get tired of pro traditional values people using dishonest tactics like bringing polygamy and bestiality into SSM discussions. It's equally annoying and dishonest to equate SSM to civil rights, plus it get's very annoying. The appeal to emotion is illogical.
    When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. -Socrates
    Tired of elections being between the lesser of two evils.

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