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Thread: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

  1. #51
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Exactly how does society benefit by denying gay marriage? This should be good.
    Thought ya'd never ask..

    I developed this argument in the basement. I know, I know, people don't argue in the basement,, Who knew??

    I would have said, your Honor, it depends greatly on a number of factors, and especially relevant is the way, and by which criteria you decide to rule on the issue. If you rule on this issue using gender as your key guiding factor, then please consider the following. Procreation doesn't end with the act of laying the seed, simply having the ability to have a child isn't the only thing involved in procreation. The fundamental right to bear children is deeply rooted in all of society from every generation, and has been for 4.5 million years. However, the word pro create is important. It imparts special meaning. The "pro", in procreate is germane to the nuclear family. Meaning that both able bodies, formally, and consciously give their affirmation that they wish to consummate the family unit by creating another human, and to raise that child in an environment that equally recognizes the unique function of their own families, and their posterity. The "blood-line" is essentially routed, and perhaps even intrinsic to the wanting, and longing for a family, to continue the line. It is even axiomatic to the function of DNA, and without our own conscious control.

    It is somewhat suspect that a homosexual, can produce a child equally similar, and with another homosexual that closely matches, or even resembles that, that can be produced by an opposite sex coupling. In an opposite gender coupling, the urge to procreate is not bound by any intrinsic obstacles. However, in same sex couplings the desire to share in procreation is not, and cannot, be mutually shared physically, similar to that of true blood line opposite sex couplings. One must question whether intrinsic urges exist if one partner must fundamentally accept the inherent difficulties in bearing a child for the other, if blood lines, and the basis for child rearing at all is based on the intrinsic desire to pass on ones blood line to the next generation. Therefore, since the state is a manifestation of the unique contributions of opposite sex couplings, it is incumbent on the state to value them over all else, in fact place special recognition for the contribution to the states posterity, the heterosexual union provides, unique to any other gender-couplings, or sexual orientation.

    Your Honor we must accept that in our culture, gender doesn't stop at ones sex. In fact, genders play roles in the procreative process. It has been shown, and accepted in every study ever done on marriage that children do best with a mother and a father present, the respondents will stipulate to opposing council, and to the court that, there isn't a lot of data on the impact of same sex families, however, children need, and are of wanting for examples of how they should identify themselves, as they grow. There are unique qualities a female, and male presence impart on the psychological health of a child, in areas such as their identity. Children of broken homes, or dysfunctional ones, tend to get into more trouble in all areas reflecting poor psychological health. It is the position of the respondents that, same sex couplings share no intrinsic qualities that are present in opposite sex couplings with respect to procreation, and, leaves it to the court to decide whether this value to society reflect inexorably on the efficacy of a same sex coupling to the extent equal to the benefits of the opposite sex coupling. Further, it is the opinion of the respondents that, by intrinsic qualities alone, the same sex coupling is incapable of proving the same benefit to society, by way of biological, and psychological dysfunction to the family unit, if one presumes to conclude that the same sex coupling is unaware of the benefits the opposite sex coupling impart on the success of society by simply being an opposite sex coupling.
    Thoughts? Careful councilor, I'm a couple of steps ahead of you..


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  2. #52
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Becasue I'm not predisposed to being black, or latino, or male or female.. THAT's, why it is irrelevant..!!


    Tim-
    Perhaps what you meant to say is that you are not prejudiced against blacks, latinos, etc......and want to view your prejudice and bigotry against gays as irrelevant or otherwise "justified".

    Its ok....you are in good company. Those who felt the same about blacks felt just as "justified" as the bigots of today.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  3. #53
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Thought ya'd never ask..

    I developed this argument in the basement. I know, I know, people don't argue in the basement,, Who knew??



    Thoughts? Careful councilor, I'm a couple of steps ahead of you..


    Tim-
    I think you mean a couple of miles behind.

    There is a good reason why the pro-prop 8 lawyers didn't focus on procreation as their argument like yourself....because it is a losing issue.

    You would have to limit marriage to people who sign a contract that says that they will procreate and void it if they do not.

    As for your psychological arguments, studies show exactly the opposite.

    A little hint: If the professional lawyers have rejected your argument....there is probably a good reason they did.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  4. #54
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Perhaps what you meant to say is that you are not prejudiced against blacks, latinos, etc......and want to view your prejudice and bigotry against gays as irrelevant or otherwise "justified".

    Its ok....you are in good company. Those who felt the same about blacks felt just as "justified" as the bigots of today.
    But it's not bigotry.. You don't even know how to properly apply the word, apparently?


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  5. #55
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    But it's not bigotry.. You don't even know how to properly apply the word, apparently?


    Tim-
    Perhaps it is you that is having problems with the basic English language.

    When you believe that you are entitled to rights/privileges that others are not....THAT is bigotry.

    Its really not that difficult of a concept.
    Last edited by disneydude; 08-16-10 at 11:34 PM.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    I think you mean a couple of miles behind.

    There is a good reason why the pro-prop 8 lawyers didn't focus on procreation as their argument like yourself....because it is a losing issue.

    You would have to limit marriage to people who sign a contract that says that they will procreate and void it if they do not.

    As for your psychological arguments, studies show exactly the opposite.

    A little hint: If the professional lawyers have rejected your argument....there is probably a good reason they did.
    Not at all.. In law, as I'm sure you're aware, there is often a presumption of a substantive claim. It is true until shown untrue. By simply being a heterosexual coupling, the state presumes that procreation will ensue. There is no intrinsic presumption that a homosexual couple will procreate.

    There.. YOU LOSE..

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  7. #57
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Perhaps it is you that is having problems with the basic English language.

    When you believe that you are entitled to rights/privileges that others are not....THAT is bigotry.

    Its really not that difficult of a concept.
    No it's discrimination..

    You're not a very good lawyer are you? I mean, I ask in all seriousness..


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: 9th Circuit Grants Stay Pending Appeal in Prop. 8 Case

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  9. #59
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Not at all.. In law, as I'm sure you're aware, there is often a presumption of a substantive claim. It is true until shown untrue. By simply being a heterosexual coupling, the state presumes that procreation will ensue. There is no intrinsic presumption that a homosexual couple will procreate.

    There.. YOU LOSE..

    Tim-
    Sorry....but you have just demonstrated that you have zero understanding of equal protection analysis. Why you just wrote is completely wrong.
    When the Courts look at Constitutional challenges they first determine whether there is a right/privilege that is being infringed upon. Then they decide the nature of that right/privilege (is it a fundamental right or not). Then they look at the status of the group affected and determine what level of scrutiny to apply to their analysis.
    Depending on the level that they choose, they determine whether the state meets its burden to justify the differentiation in treatment. Depending on the level, the Court requires the GOVERNMENT to demonstrate either a legitimate, important or compelling state interest that is furthered by the different treatment.

    So sir......sorry.....but you lose.

    Nice try though.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  10. #60
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    No it's discrimination..

    You're not a very good lawyer are you? I mean, I ask in all seriousness..


    Tim-
    What you think "Bigotry" is?

    Discrimination is often the end result of "bigotry", however, bigotry often exists without any overt discrimination.

    You might want to consult a dictionary.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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