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Thread: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

  1. #351
    Goddess of Bacon

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Yes, I return-vollied.
    Okay! Just checking! LOL

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Hint: you have nothing, I have presented multiple sources. You are doing exactly what I said you would, none of which invalidates the study in any way. You made a claim, which you failed to back up. This is not my fault. I have presented evidence(and have more), you have presented nothing except a link which actually disproves your claim. Feel free to actually support your claim, but so far, it looks to be 100 %, entirely, completely, totally false.
    hehe.. yeah ok, boy you are starting to sound like somneone else I know here. Anyway I found the study, and boy o boy does it have problems, and I've only read a little bit of it. I'll post my criticisms and the study when I'm done reading it ALL.

    Oh by the way. Are you intentionally trying to misrepresent my stated opinion on this particular issue? I've not stated with any attempt to claim factual basis that lesbians, and gays are worse than heterosexual parents similarly situated. I've made a special attempt to say that my opinons are my own, and that I have no factual evidence to confirm my opinions. Did you miss all that in my previous posts? I will say however, and Ithe claim I have made, is that, based on empiricle evidence, my assertions seem to be true. The main variable I use, is that of gender identification as a suppository for emotional, psychological, and spiritual well-being in children raised by gays, and those raised by heterosexuals. No one has addressed that specific criteria, or the questions I raised, and I think I know why?

    Actually, I have read enough of the study already, so here it is so you can all have a peek at the data, and methodology. Now, can anyone tell me why they think it might be wrong to conclude what the good lesbian doctors concluded? Anyone, see anything? On the first two pages there are tons of flaws, but lets see if you can spot them.

    Actual Study


    All to often the media reports something with a sensational claim, but all too often they are wrong.

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  3. #353
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    first they dont allow it... then they do... now its on pending.... why soo much trouble to make people satisfied.. sighhh this country and its b-tarted ways smh

  4. #354
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Ok, well since no one wants to comment I will.

    Here's what' wrong with the study: First what the authors themselves admit too: (My comments in bold)

    1. This study has several limitations. First, it has a nonrandom sample. Achenbach's sample is completely random, and covers every demographic, by race, ethnicity, religion, age of parents, socioeconomic status, single, married, and divorced parents, in addition it covers every urban, and suburban population in every region of the United States.

    2. At T1 and T2, some NLLFS participants expressed fears that legislation could be enacted to rescind the parenting rights of lesbian mothers. The mothers should have been dropped from the sample because the variables of the questionnaire were decidedly important to the accuracy of the study

    3. A second limitation is that the data did not include the Achenbach Youth Self- Report or Teacher’s Report Form.39 A more comprehensive assessment would have included reports from all 3 sources. More comprehensive she says. Yeah right, not only would it have made this study more credible, it would have purposefully avoided Simpson's Paradox

    4. final limitation is that although the NLLFS and the normative samples are similar in socioeconomic
    status, they are neither matched nor controlled for race/ethnicity or region of residence. Yep, it makes a huge difference, not a little tiny one that this "researcher" is trying to portray.

    5. The NLLFS sample is drawn from first-wave planned lesbian families who were initially clustered
    around metropolitan areas with visible lesbian communities, which were much less diverse than they
    are today; recruiting was limited to the relatively small number of prospective mothers who felt safe
    enough to identify publicly as lesbian, who had the economic resources to afford DI, and who, in the
    pre-Internet era, were affiliated with the communities in which the study was advertised. Yep,
    further messing up the reliability of the study's conclusions. In fact, I would say that as studies go, this is
    tantamount to reckless!


    Now my other observations, you know things she's not acknowledging:

    6. This study had 78 - T5 participants, and all but one couple had a single child, with the other having twins. The Achenbach normative comprised of 100's of thousands of families, and with mixed sibling sizes. The fact that the researchers neglected to mention that is not surprising.

    7. The question is often not just how well same sex parents and their children fare, but compared
    with whom? Should a single lesbian mother be compared with a single heterosexual mother? If so,
    divorced or never married? Should a two-mother family be compared with a two-biological-parent
    family, a mother/father family headed by one biological parent and one stepparent, or a single-parent
    family? It all depends on what the researcher wants to know. Identifying appropriate comparison
    groups has proved vexing, and no consistent or wholly convincing approach has emerged.

    8. There were no statistical controls to weed out non heterogeneity.

    9. The authors of the study -
    “The gender of parents only matters in ways that don’t matter.”
    They don’t matter to lesbians, obviously. But they might matter to others.

    10. The Controls. The study does not use married biological parents as controls, but rather scores them against the "Achenbach’s normative sample of American youth". This should raise red flags. And if you scroll down the study it shows this sample compared to the study sample and there are significant differences. Moreover, many details are simply left out of the description, which raises another red flag. Why no head to head comparisons of lesbian co-mothers against married biological dads?

    11. Sperm Donation. Sperm donors are screened to be of above-average genetic quality. Male donors are taller, more attractive, and more intelligent than the average man. Thus the children of sperm donors should be genetically higher in quality than the children of married biological couples. That translates to higher achievement, high social status, and generally better outcomes for children.

    12. The Achenbach normative sample captures the dysfunction in the state of the modern American family. This study compares lesbian co-mothers to non-biological fathers by using sperm donors. Why do you think there aren't any studies that compare lesbian co-mothers to married biological fathers? What do you think that study would find?

    13. The authors themselves. Nanette Gartrell, is a gay woman who has a strong political motivation to provide positive results. Problem is that this study could not possibly be duplicated if properly controlled for.

    14. And finally the data itself. The authors refer several times to "previously referenced" reports, concerning the data set. I'm willing to believe that the questionnaires themselves were interpreted correctly, however, what I'd like to see are the notes on the comparison controls. You know, whether the teachers, and children themselves agreed with ole Mom.



    Tim-
    Last edited by Hicup; 08-19-10 at 06:05 PM.
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  5. #355
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Still not offering any studies of your own I see. Zero evidence from you.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  6. #356
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Still not offering any studies of your own I see. Zero evidence from you.
    That's because there aren't any reliable studies, and that's kind of the point. All I have is the historical record on how successful heterosexual marriage has been in rearing children. I could produce 1000's of studies on heterosexual parenting, in all forms, and they wouold conclude, and have been repeatedly duplicated as to the efficacy of the stable healthy marriage, where both the Mother and the Father, are present, and taking an active role in their childrens lives, and how that is BEST for the children. These studies compare against all type of parenting situations, including homosexual parenting, but homosexuality wasn't a variable, but rather a consequence. They also compare aginast single Mother, single Fathers, adopted, step parent homes, shared custody, separate custody, etc... etc.. In these instances, children do markedly better when the family is intact, and the marriage is healthy.

    I am yet to see any study that properly controls for lesbian parents (Gay male parenting models are vitually not studies at all) against healthy heterosexual parents of equal variables. NOT a one, and this study in 2009, published in 2010 didn't properly, and even recklessly claims a conclusion based on shoddy science.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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