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Thread: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    If I had a day or three, I could put up example after example after link after link of why 'traditional marriage' is inherently flawed and has done serious damage to ... wait a minute, hicup. You're on your second marriage. So you should know all about how there are no guarantees when it comes to 'traditional marriage'.

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Oooo.. Oooo..


    Tim-
    And just how would you feel if people came after your freedoms?

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    And just how would you feel if people came after your freedoms?
    It's hard to be logical with someone who has already rationalized mob rule and tyranny as proper functions of government based on personal intolerance and bigotry.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    See, this is the typical methodology of some one who has nothing. Evade, avoid, cloud. You have shown no evidence that children raised by gays do less well than those raised by straits. You constantly avoid doing so. You only try and demean anything others actually do bring as evidence. It's the same strategy that Creationists use. Don't prove your point, try and cast doubt on the other view, and hope people mistake that s meaning your view is right.

    So come on, link to and quote some actual evidence.
    I could say the same for you. You have provided ZERO, nadda, zilch evidence. You only provide "article" that do the thinking for you. I on the other hand do not simply take someones word for something. I look at the data. You haven't done that, and I suspect you have no specific training in statistical analysis, which is ok, but it also explains why you're unable to offer up any opinion of your own concerning the study. Instead opting to quote the opinions of others. Statistical data, only at best gives us the ability to form conclusions based on correlative value, not causative. They can sometimes lead to the truth, but by themselves they are NOT the truth. Do you understand that concept, Redress? Statistical analysis of data sets, and variables lead us in the right direction. In other words, it tells us where we should look next.

    If you don't understand that, I can't help you. You haven't provided evidence of any truth, nor have I, because there isn't any truth yet on the subject.

    Let me give you an example. (And I swear I have no idea why I'm wasting my time with educating you). IN your 2010 study, I already know that seeing the data is extremely important based on what you had quoted. Know why? Because the variable used for the test scores is missing. It only says that similarly situated heterosexual parents, and children of the same age were used. It gives no other data, no variables, no screening methods, nothing.. It doesn't say ANYTHING that would suffice as evidence.

    Now, do you have the study or should I go look for it myself?


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    If I had a day or three, I could put up example after example after link after link of why 'traditional marriage' is inherently flawed and has done serious damage to ... wait a minute, hicup. You're on your second marriage. So you should know all about how there are no guarantees when it comes to 'traditional marriage'.
    Right, but it has no bearing on the validity of traditional marriage. There's no inconsistency, and you're little attempt to goad me, is transparent. There's no inconsistency with my personal life and my view on marriage.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Meh. I guess. Of course not when I was raising my daughter, but now is good.
    I hope you know I was being sarcastic..?

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I could say the same for you. You have provided ZERO, nadda, zilch evidence. You only provide "article" that do the thinking for you. I on the other hand do not simply take someones word for something. I look at the data. You haven't done that, and I suspect you have no specific training in statistical analysis, which is ok, but it also explains why you're unable to offer up any opinion of your own concerning the study. Instead opting to quote the opinions of others. Statistical data, only at best gives us the ability to form conclusions based on correlative value, not causative. They can sometimes lead to the truth, but by themselves they are NOT the truth. Do you understand that concept, Redress? Statistical analysis of data sets, and variables lead us in the right direction. In other words, it tells us where we should look next.

    If you don't understand that, I can't help you. You haven't provided evidence of any truth, nor have I, because there isn't any truth yet on the subject.

    Let me give you an example. (And I swear I have no idea why I'm wasting my time with educating you). IN your 2010 study, I already know that seeing the data is extremely important based on what you had quoted. Know why? Because the variable used for the test scores is missing. It only says that similarly situated heterosexual parents, and children of the same age were used. It gives no other data, no variables, no screening methods, nothing.. It doesn't say ANYTHING that would suffice as evidence.

    Now, do you have the study or should I go look for it myself?


    Tim-
    No, I provided sources with state that the studies exist, and what they show. This is significantly more than you have provided, which is, well, an article which states the exact opposite of your premise, and an opinion piece.

    By the way, the original source article you could not find: US National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study: Psychological Adjustment of 17-Year-Old Adolescents -- Gartrell and Bos, 10.1542/peds.2009-3153 -- Pediatrics

    Conclusions Adolescents who have been reared in lesbian-mother families since birth demonstrate healthy psychological adjustment. These findings have implications for the clinical care of adolescents and for pediatricians who are consulted on matters that pertain to same-sex parenting.
    Google is your friend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No, I provided sources with state that the studies exist, and what they show. This is significantly more than you have provided, which is, well, an article which states the exact opposite of your premise, and an opinion piece.

    By the way, the original source article you could not find: US National Longitudinal Lesbian Family Study: Psychological Adjustment of 17-Year-Old Adolescents -- Gartrell and Bos, 10.1542/peds.2009-3153 -- Pediatrics



    Google is your friend.
    Apparently it is NOT your friend since this isn't the study. It's a summary, and it suffer from one glaring methodological flaw already, particularly here:

    Results According to their mothers' reports, the 17-year-old daughters and sons of lesbian mothers were rated significantly higher in social, school/academic, and total competence and significantly lower in social problems, rule-breaking, aggressive, and externalizing problem behavior than their age-matched counterparts in Achenbach's normative sample of American youth. Within the lesbian family sample, no Child Behavior Checklist differences were found among adolescent offspring who were conceived by known, as-yet-unknown, and permanently unknown donors or between offspring whose mothers were still together and offspring whose mothers had separated.
    So, assuming the mother's knew of the studies intent, the integrity of the data set is not credible. Moreover, the questions would have to be exactly the same as the corresponding normative sample. I don't know that, since this isn't the whole study. Furthermore, the questions themselves must have strict control measurements, and again, I don't know that since this isn't the whole study.

    Nice try, but on the face, I will say that the study is flawed if the control sample knew of the intent.

    Plus, and this is a BIG ONE, is this:

    Dr. Gartrell was the first out lesbian on the Harvard Medical School faculty
    Link: http://www.alliant.edu/wps/wcm/conne...te+Gartrell+MD


    Oops..

    Tim-
    Last edited by Hicup; 08-19-10 at 02:32 PM.
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    I hope you know I was being sarcastic..?
    Yes, I return-vollied.

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Apparently it is NOT your friend since this isn't the study. It's a summary, and it suffer from one glaring methodological flaw already, particularly here:



    So, assuming the mother's knew of the studies intent, the integrity of the data set is not credible. Moreover, the questions would have to be exactly the same as the corresponding normative sample. I don't know that, since this isn't the whole study. Furthermore, the questions themselves must have strict control measurements, and again, I don't know that since this isn't the whole study.

    Nice try, but on the face, I will say that the study is flawed if the control sample knew of the intent.

    Plus, and this is a BIG ONE, is this:



    Link: http://www.alliant.edu/wps/wcm/conne...te+Gartrell+MD


    Oops..

    Tim-
    Hint: you have nothing, I have presented multiple sources. You are doing exactly what I said you would, none of which invalidates the study in any way. You made a claim, which you failed to back up. This is not my fault. I have presented evidence(and have more), you have presented nothing except a link which actually disproves your claim. Feel free to actually support your claim, but so far, it looks to be 100 %, entirely, completely, totally false.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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