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Thread: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Did you read your source material Hicup? Let me quote the first one:

    Most of the differences in the findings discussed above cannot be considered deficits from any legitimate public policy perspective. They either favor the children with lesbigay parents, are secondary effects of social prejudice, or represent "just a difference" of the sort democratic societies should respect and protect.
    Your second link gives a 404 error.
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Did you read your source material Hicup? Let me quote the first one:



    Your second link gives a 404 error.
    Hmm, you're right. Try this: http://www.winst.org/family_marriage...I_Marriage.pdf

    Of course I read it, I know it inside and out. Did you read it all, or just the parts you want to hear. I already said that Stacey has gone on record saying that people are misinterpreting her conclusions, but the data is what it is. You can argue all day long what the data says, and people have. Her study of many studies is the most widely quoted, and both sides find areas to exploit. I quoted it, and linked to it, because it offers a very in-depth look at many studies on the issue. In short, the study is an analysis of all the major studies done to date, and she offers a few opinions on the subject. It's a fair assessment in that, she has every right to her conclusions, and in some ways the statistics convey correlative value to her conclusions, but in other ways they do not. They say otherwise. Statistics are funny things, and broad samples can be manipulated in many ways. Not to mention that, her opinions in favor of gay parenting are not necessarily conclusive, and are also not necessarily supported by the data. That's the point. I posted it so people who care about the issue specific to gay parenting, can look at the data, and form their own conclusions. It's all right there. As I said, the data is complex, and some variables are assumed, and some variables cannot be quantified, so in a lot of ways, the study of the major studies, is in itself incomplete, and perhaps suffering from the same flaws that other studies suffer from. That is, the variables that are not quantifiable, and instead, assumptions are used to round out the category. Assumptions can be used to form conclusions, but how close they are to the truth all depends on how much weight you assign the variable.

    I have no problem arguing the data in Stacey's paper. I understand statistics, and concepts such as penetration, and incidence, prevalence, and how they all meet in the middle to form correlative conclusions. I get it.. Do you?


    Tim-
    Last edited by Hicup; 08-19-10 at 12:52 PM.
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Actually yes, I have read the full article. That is why I know that Dr. Stacey concluded that children raised by gays do just as well as children raised by straits. Further, the article you linked is from 2001, whereas my link was from 2005. Dr. Stacey helped correct some methodology issues in this 2001 article, and has improved the studies done since...remember, my source was from 2005. Further, there are even more recent studies. Here, from 2010: Children of lesbian parents do better than their peers - life - 08 June 2010 - New Scientist

    The children of lesbian parents outscore their peers on academic and social tests, according to results from the longest-running study of same-sex families.
    Now, do you want to try and document that children of gay parents do not do as well as those of strait parents? Or are we supposed to take your word for it?
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    @Hicup and it is dumb why? Because in a very amusing way it shows why you are intolerant?
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    @Hicup and it is dumb why? Because in a very amusing way it shows why you are intolerant?
    Of course I'm intolerant. So?


    Tim-
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Of course I'm intolerant. So?


    Tim-
    Sew buttons

    But it just means you shouldn't be setting any legal policies since you're too willing to infringe upon the liberties of certain groups.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Actually yes, I have read the full article. That is why I know that Dr. Stacey concluded that children raised by gays do just as well as children raised by straits. Further, the article you linked is from 2001, whereas my link was from 2005. Dr. Stacey helped correct some methodology issues in this 2001 article, and has improved the studies done since...remember, my source was from 2005. Further, there are even more recent studies. Here, from 2010: Children of lesbian parents do better than their peers - life - 08 June 2010 - New Scientist



    Now, do you want to try and document that children of gay parents do not do as well as those of strait parents? Or are we supposed to take your word for it?

    Do yoiu have the actual study to examine? I don't see a link to it in the NS site?

    Also, you forgot ths part of your quoted portion? Why not post this part Redress?

    Compared with a group of control adolescents born to heterosexual parents with similar educational and financial backgrounds, the children of lesbian couples scored better on academic and social tests and lower on measures of rule-breaking and aggression.
    Odd that you would miss that part, since it forms the complete sentence? Why stop at the scored better on this, and forget to add the but faired lower on that? Really weird?

    Show me the study, I'd like to see the data set.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Sew buttons

    But it just means you shouldn't be setting any legal policies since you're too willing to infringe upon the liberties of certain groups.
    Yes, that is so, but not without a well reasoned and rational justification. You're not in agreement, that's cool, this is America. You have a soapbox too, and you, like me, are using it

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Yes, that is so, but not without a well reasoned and rational justification. You're not in agreement, that's cool, this is America. You have a soapbox too, and you, like me, are using it

    Tim-
    Anyone can use a soap box. However, we cannot actually infringe upon the rights and liberties of the individual. Which is where you seem to err.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Do yoiu have the actual study to examine? I don't see a link to it in the NS site?

    Also, you forgot ths part of your quoted portion? Why not post this part Redress?



    Odd that you would miss that part, since it forms the complete sentence? Why stop at the scored better on this, and forget to add the but faired lower on that? Really weird?

    Show me the study, I'd like to see the data set.


    Tim-
    Hint: I quoted the lead paragraph of the article, in it's entirety. You quoted an entirely different sentence from further in the article. No trying to hide anything as you imply.

    The study found that they children did better overall, not in every area. I never claimed otherwise. Further, this is in line with other similar studies. You have so far presented exactly nothing to counter these studies. Not one bit of evidence otherwise, despite being asked repeatedly. Wonder why that is....
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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