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Thread: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

  1. #311
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    So, you're ok with paying for those frat boys, and girls forming a union of marriage just so they can reap the rewards of your hard earned tax dollars, for nothing, other than entering into the contract? Well, I have a problem with that myself. I wonder if you would think that those "buds" getting married is equal to the homosexual marriage?
    Tim-
    It's not for me, or anyone else, to determine the value of someone's relationship or contractual obligations. Again, I don't give a **** who signs contracts with each other. If people are so insecure that they have to "weigh" their marriage against that of someone elses, then that's their problem. Not mine.

    What I DO give a **** about is our govt engaging in blatant sexual discrimination. Everything else is irrelevant.

    EDIT: And as I said previously, I think the govt should be out of the marriage bull**** altogether. Personally, I don't think that people who sign a certain contract should get more privileges than those of us who do not. But as long as the govt is involved, they cannot be allowed to continue the sexual discrimination.
    Last edited by rivrrat; 08-19-10 at 12:00 AM.

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I never said it was, well not directly. It's more of an illustration. What it is, is an exposing of the slippery slope that Walkers ruling entails. It opens up a wide variety of marriage possibilities based on gender alone. Why not just restrict it to one man, and one woman?




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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Studies show that children do best in 2 parent households. You have evidence that those 2 parents must be male and female? Feel free to present it.
    I could, but it would be a waste of time. The best you could do to argue against me is say that there isn't enough data to show that gays are as good as heterosexual parents. But experience shows that both the mother, and the father impart special characteristics in rearing children. These characteristics help the child identify with themselves. You don't need a study for this, you only need to look past your particular ideological agenda.

    I must bid you all farewell for now. I've got to go kill some bad guys in Battlefield Bad Company II. My LAN friends are yelling at me..


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  4. #314
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    I could, but it would be a waste of time. The best you could do to argue against me is say that there isn't enough data to show that gays are as good as heterosexual parents. But experience shows that both the mother, and the father impart special characteristics in rearing children. These characteristics help the child identify with themselves. You don't need a study for this, you only need to look past your particular ideological agenda.

    I must bid you all farewell for now. I've got to go kill some bad guys in Battlefield Bad Company II. My LAN friends are yelling at me..


    tim-
    So you have nothing, again. I on the other hand, have documetation: http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/n...-adjusted-kids

    Between 1 million and 6 million children in the U.S. are being reared by committed lesbian or gay couples, she says. Children being raised by same-sex parents were either born to a heterosexual couple, adopted, or conceived through artificial insemination.

    "The vast consensus of all the studies shows that children of same-sex parents do as well as children whose parents are heterosexual in every way," she tells WebMD. "In some ways children of same-sex parents actually may have advantages over other family structures."
    This is called backing up our claims. I can add more since more has been done since this article. Your claim is false.
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    No, but a healthy viable marriage is essential to a healthy society
    And there are SO many of those, right? I mean, I can't spit without hitting a healthy marriage.

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
    Incorrect. Healthy *relationships* are essential, but not marriage contracts.


    Indeed. We should remove the children from all single parents.
    Meh. I guess. Of course not when I was raising my daughter, but now is good.

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    So, you're ok with paying for those frat boys, and girls forming a union of marriage just so they can reap the rewards of your hard earned tax dollars, for nothing, other than entering into the contract?
    Yes, because that's MY right too. Why should someone NOT do what is finantially in their best interest provided it is within the bounds of the law?

    I have a problem with that myself.
    Do you also have problems with people contributing to their IRA and 401(k)s because it allows them to "evade taxes?" After all, they can shelter $5,000 from taxes a year "for nothing, other than entering into a contract!" (And paying $15).

    So what's the difference between the taxes saved by an IRA and taxes saved by getting married?
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    I think ultimately what has to happen here is the government needs to step in and make it federally legal for anyone to marry who they want all over. This is one of these things where public opinion will catch up with the ruling as time goes on.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    That's the stupidest thing I've ever seen.. Wow?

    Redress -
    So you have nothing, again. I on the other hand, have documetation: http://www.webmd.com/mental-health/n...-adjusted-kids
    You don't have jack.. The article is from 2005, and it exactly the kind of article one would expect from someone who supports gay marriage. Most, if not all studies done on gay parenting were done by researchers that were pro-gay. They also suffer from at least, one, and many time more methodological flaws. The conclusions developed in most of the studies are lacking the threshold burden to form a statistical correlation. In other words, they are manufactured conclusions. Judith Stacey's, analysis of all of the major studies is perhaps the most often quoted study to date. In it, and although she has gone on record refuting the results of her own study, she states that, in fact children reared by homosexual couples are much more likely to identify as gay when they reach adulthood. She also concludes that, empirically, children in stable healthy heterosexual homes, are much more psychologically healthy than those of homosexual homes, where the stability of the homosexual home is equivalent to that of the heterosexual home. See especially S. 159-183. See especially 168-171

    Just like children of broken homes, divorce, and single parent homes are less likely to experience the emotion well-being found in children of healthy, and stable heterosexual marriages.

    Now, we know there are exceptions to any of these rules, we KNOW this, but using studies that examine statistical data, we must form conclusions based on the broad sample We can't throw out statistics, because they don't say what we want them to say as a whole, just like we can't take a single, or exceptional variable, and apply it to the broad sample. The purpose of broad samples is to more narrowly define the conclusion. We can never take a single individual experience, or even a small number of similar experiences, and apply it to a sample that has a specific intent of drawing a broad conclusion. That's why small samples, even if done with precision, and attuned with the highest regard for the scientific method, are incomplete at forming broad, narrow conclusions. In other words, they don't tell us anything about society, all they tend to is tell us about the sample itself.

    I KNOW, that the liberal, and to some degree more liberal social conservatives here on this forum argue that marriage shouldn't be the government's business. I get that, I also get that many here feel that, heterosexual marriage isn't exactly great anymore, and that heterosexual marriage proponents can't exactly make a claim that their form of marriage is stable, when we see divorce rates as high as 50%. I get that as well. However, I have long maintained that the devaluing of the traditional marriage has been the result of many attacks from less conservative principles, legislation, liberally influenced educational indoctrination, media, inter alia, and as a result, over the last 40 years, especially over the last 25 or so years, we have seen a massive devaluing of marriage. I contend that if marriage is not "brought-back", and promoted, and recognized as it has been historically, and traditionally, our society will not survive another 100 years. I truly believe this, and all available data points to this eventuality.

    This, of course, is merely my opinion. I have no magic googled link that backs up my opinion, as the issue is extremely complex, and covers a wide range of equally complex variables, and even if I did provide 50 links to add weight to this or that variable, most here would dismiss it. In fact people are dismissing the complexity of this issue as it stands now. The reason people, even members here raise the issue, "Well how the **** does it affect you, or your marriage" is because there is no one sentence, or even a Ph.D thesis that could answer it, in a way that is quantifiable. The affects are over many years, and affect society, not the individual marriage, per say. Now, I know I'm a small voice on this forum, in favor of keeping traditional marriage, traditional, and I also advocate for legislation to strengthen it, and provide more recognition to heterosexual marriage, but that's another topic.

    I found this article by a Princeton review, that articulates my position on marriage with a great deal more authority, and in fact, is exactly my feeling on the matter. http://www.winst.org/family_marriage...Ten Principles

    It's a great read for anyone that shares my viewpoint in wanting to restore the strength of the traditional marriage within society. I highly recommend it.

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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