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Thread: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Let me get this straight. The only way that you are going to accept that California wants same sex marriage is that they not only overturn Prop 8 with a majority vote, but then they have to introduce a proposition to amend their Constitution to include a definition of same sex marriage? Why? If they overturn Prop 8, then by all means they have endorsed same sex marriage. Why would they have to go that extra mile? It sounds to me like you are just trying to leave yourself an excuse to fight it until the day you die.
    Yes. Because not enacting some proposition that legally defines marriage to include or exclude homosexuality pretty much leaves the window open up to anything. Prop 8 never mentions homosexuality, it just set up a definition for marriage that sets it as a union between one man and one woman. Repealing this repeals the definition, it doesn't set a new one in place. If the overturn Prop 8 that means they disagree with it. And if they truly endorse gay marriage they can legally define marriage to include homosexual relationships. They have to go the "extra mile" because repealing Prop 8 does nothing but remove a definition, it doesn't set up a new one.

    I will always disagree and hold gay marriages to not be marriages by my belief system. But if a state votes and decides that marriage in that state includes homosexuality then I have no objections. I don't object to Canada having gay marriage, nor do I object to other countries that have it when that's what the people want. Stop making false and offensive judgments.
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I deleted that post.

    And I have said in other threads that if the majority vote in favor of gay marriage then I have no problem with it. If a majority supports it then let them vote on it. However, they will have to vote to repeal prop 8 and then place a new proposition that defines marriage for that state. I fully support the state's rights to define marriage by popular vote.
    Do you believe that the voters should have veto power over YOUR (current or future) marriage? It's no one's goddamn business except the two people who want to get married.
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Yes. Because not enacting some proposition that legally defines marriage to include or exclude homosexuality pretty much leaves the window open up to anything. Prop 8 never mentions homosexuality, it just set up a definition for marriage that sets it as a union between one man and one woman. Repealing this repeals the definition, it doesn't set a new one in place. If the overturn Prop 8 that means they disagree with it. And if they truly endorse gay marriage they can legally define marriage to include homosexual relationships. They have to go the "extra mile" because repealing Prop 8 does nothing but remove a definition, it doesn't set up a new one.

    I will always disagree and hold gay marriages to not be marriages by my belief system. But if a state votes and decides that marriage in that state includes homosexuality then I have no objections. I don't object to Canada having gay marriage, nor do I object to other countries that have it when that's what the people want. Stop making false and offensive judgments.
    So if a majority wants something in this country, then you will support their right to have it no matter what it is and even if you personally disagree with it?

    I'm sorry, but I just don't buy it. I think you support a Federal Constitutional amendment and would love the opportunity to deny same sex marriage to states that would vote for it. The only reason you care about the voting issue is because that is the only way you can win; by appealing to the prejudices of the populace.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 08-16-10 at 10:17 PM.

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by texmaster View Post
    What does that have to do with marriage?
    Marriage is more or less the state recognizing two people being together. Until in about three years they are tearing each other a new one in divorce court.
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Do you believe that the voters should have veto power over YOUR (current or future) marriage? It's no one's goddamn business except the two people who want to get married.
    The thing though is, is that homosexual relationships aren't marriage. The two people who want to get married can't change the existing contract against the will of others to force the government to recognize their union for something that it isn't.
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    So if a majority wants something in this country, then you will support their right to have it no matter what it is and even if you personally disagree with it?

    I'm sorry, but I just don't buy it. I think you support a Federal Constitutional amendment and would love the opportunity to deny same sex marriage to states that would vote for it. The only reason you care about the voting issue is because that is the only way you can win; by appealing to the prejudices of the populace.
    No, I am not saying that. I am speaking only on the issue of gay marriage.

    And yes, I would love for my beliefs to be put into law by the government just like everyone else. I don't support the Constitution being amended to ban gay marriage because that is a violation of state's rights. I support the state having the right to define marriage. Who is prejudice? I have gay friends, I have already stated that I don't seek to overturn gay marriage in other places. All I said is that if a vote is presented before a state to define marriage and that state decides by vote to do whatever (gay, no gay, even animals) I don't care and have no political objection to it. I deleted my original post to avoid all of this again.
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Well, however this ends, whether gay marriage is eventually decided legal in all fifty states or not, heterosexuals can talk comfort in the fact that at no time will their own marriages ever come under threat, whether by litigation, popular votes or court decision.

    Personally, I think a much fairer way of going about this is that if laws against gay marriage are decided constitutional, then gays don't get to be married and that's the end of that. But if they are decided to be unconstitutional, then all heterosexuals have to forfeit their marriages. The problem here is that heterosexuals (at least the anti-gay marriage camp) aren't threatened at all -- they're gambling with other people's lives.

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    What concerns me about some of these comments is that they are very similar to those made by segregationists during the civil rights struggle. Should states have had the right to decide segregation?!!!!!!!!!

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    Who is prejudice? I have gay friends
    I only know you through this messageboard, but I doubt this part of your statement. First off, it's been my experience that folks who go around saying "I have black friends" or "I have gay friends" more than likely do not, and use such statements in an attempt to cushion their highly discriminatory beliefs by showing themselves to be inclusive of the very group they seek to eliminate. But if you do, describe these friends. You guys hang out a lot? Have dinner together? You know their relatives well? What are their aspirations - to get married, maybe have kids together and start a family?

    No, friends tend to help one another, accept each other for who they are, and support each other. I've read your posts on the issue - you don't seem like you are very accepting of equality when it comes to homosexuality; therefore, I highly doubt that you seek to surround yourself with folks that you view as living an unacceptable lifestyle. You can tell the folks who really do have friends like that. They are the ones who don't label them as 'gay friends', and aren't all up in arms when they want to get married to one another.

    So, you're against marriage equality? Fine. But I wish you and everyone else who is against it would please stop with the "me and my gay friends" routine, because it's really not fooling anyone.

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    How does it affect you again? I keep forgetting.



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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    What concerns me about some of these comments is that they are very similar to those made by segregationists during the civil rights struggle. Should states have had the right to decide segregation?!!!!!!!!!
    Ahh yes, the Gay is Race card!
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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