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Thread: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

  1. #191
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So what are the other interests then and rank them. Because procreation seems to me the only thing that separates homosexual marriage and heterosexual marriage (though adoptions can occur). If it's just "an" interest, not "the" interest; then there are others and perhaps others ranked higher. So why is it ok to ban a group from marriage, from exercising their right to contract, if you have violated just "an" interest? There has to either be other interests violated or it has to be "the" interest. So what are these other interests? And is it enough to justly infringe upon the rights of others?
    You're all missing the legal importance of my argument. The EPC challenge, and that of due process are tied to fundamental rights. I have provided an argument that addresses those issues. Unless what you wish to argue rises to a fundamental right, it is rendered moot. Make your case councilor..


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So what are the other interests then and rank them. Because procreation seems to me the only thing that separates homosexual marriage and heterosexual marriage (though adoptions can occur).
    Child rearing would of course be a big one. One could say that in recognizing marriage, the state recognizes that marriage is the proper social construct for having and raising children.

  3. #193
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Child rearing would of course be a big one. One could say that in recognizing marriage, the state recognizes that marriage is the proper social construct for having and raising children.
    Not to mention, it is also the only criteria that rises to meet any rational basis test the court may apply to a fundamental right, and ta vested state interest thereof.

    That's why it's important, all else fails.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  4. #194
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    It is my belief, due to the States position leading into the Federal court challenge to prop 8, that the state really didn't want to represent the peoples choice on this. All indications are that this is true. Although I have not read the transcripts of the case, I believe that it is possible that the State (The people) were under-represented.

    Meaning.. They wanted to lose.

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  5. #195
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    Child rearing would of course be a big one. One could say that in recognizing marriage, the state recognizes that marriage is the proper social construct for having and raising children.
    So this still deals with procreation alone. Because same sex couples could adopt, thus could actually rear a child. So are we just going off procreation here? Cause I thought it wasn't "the" interest.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  6. #196
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    You're all missing the legal importance of my argument. The EPC challenge, and that of due process are tied to fundamental rights. I have provided an argument that addresses those issues. Unless what you wish to argue rises to a fundamental right, it is rendered moot. Make your case councilor..


    Tim-
    Is this a deflect statement? I just wanted to know what all the interests were in a ranked list. Because the only thing I see as different between same sex marriage and hetero marriage is strict procreation. So what's the list, where is "procreation" in there, and what other "interests" have been violated? Can you answer the question? And are these violations of "interest" enough to endorse government force against the innate and inalienable right of contract?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  7. #197
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Not to mention, it is also the only criteria that rises to meet any rational basis test the court may apply to a fundamental right, and ta vested state interest thereof.

    That's why it's important, all else fails.


    Tim-
    How does same sex parents stack up against State run orphanages? Probably a lot better. One may say that the "ideal" is one man, one woman. But there are more orphans in the world than families willing to adopt; so we don't have one man and one woman for all needy children. In that case, is it so bad to have a loving, two parent home that isn't one man and one woman? A stable environment by which to grow and live? **** it, stick them in a State home because the State is a better parent than gays? Is that the route you're gonna take here?
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #198
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So this still deals with procreation alone. Because same sex couples could adopt, thus could actually rear a child. So are we just going off procreation here? Cause I thought it wasn't "the" interest.
    They can adopt, but they cannot intrinsically produce a child meeting the same standards that a heterosexual coupling can. There is zero pressumption that they can by themselves, zero, nadda, zilch.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Is this a deflect statement? I just wanted to know what all the interests were in a ranked list. Because the only thing I see as different between same sex marriage and hetero marriage is strict procreation. So what's the list, where is "procreation" in there, and what other "interests" have been violated? Can you answer the question? And are these violations of "interest" enough to endorse government force against the innate and inalienable right of contract?
    There is no inalienable right to contract in marriage. I proved that a few weeks ago. Next.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    So this still deals with procreation alone. Because same sex couples could adopt, thus could actually rear a child. So are we just going off procreation here? Cause I thought it wasn't "the" interest.
    This isn't algebra. Child-rearing doesn't suddenly become irrelevant to marriage simply because gay couples can adopt. Or, maybe I'm not getting the point you're trying to make?

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