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Thread: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

  1. #171
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Gender is a "thing"! Notwithstanding physiology, someone's gender, and their identifying roles, are tied to many intangibles, of which sexuality, and spirituality are just a couple of the variables. In family court, the whole due process for denying (Mostly) men the right to equity with their own children in divorce, is based on the "best interests of the children" doctrine. Children do best, and it is the most ideal, when both the mother, and the father are in a healthy, and commited relationship. children recieve their identity "training" from both examples. I don't see how, even remotely, how a SSM would offer the same intrinsic value to society?


    Tim-
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Gender is a "thing"! Notwithstanding physiology, someone's gender, and their identifying roles, are tied to many intangibles, of which sexuality, and spirituality are just a couple of the variables. In family court, the whole due process for denying (Mostly) men the right to equity with their own children in divorce, is based on the "best interests of the children" doctrine. Children do best, and it is the most ideal, when both the mother, and the father are in a healthy, and commited relationship. children recieve their identity "training" from both examples. I don't see how, even remotely, how a SSM would offer the same intrinsic value to society?


    Tim-
    There have been a number of studies on gays as parents. Might read up and check the available information and post an argument based on that. I warn you, most of it shows gays at least as good as straits at raising children, with the most recent study of children raised by lesbian couples doing better than average.

    Without research and sourcing, your objection is just "I think", and not much good.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Gender is a "thing"! Notwithstanding physiology, someone's gender, and their identifying roles, are tied to many intangibles, of which sexuality, and spirituality are just a couple of the variables. In family court, the whole due process for denying (Mostly) men the right to equity with their own children in divorce, is based on the "best interests of the children" doctrine. Children do best, and it is the most ideal, when both the mother, and the father are in a healthy, and commited relationship. children recieve their identity "training" from both examples. I don't see how, even remotely, how a SSM would offer the same intrinsic value to society?


    Tim-
    CC has already posted loads of actual scientific studies that are of a high standard with regards to the scientific method that debunk this.

    You've posted....

    ....

    Crap, was going to post what you've shown in support of your assertions but then I just realized you haven't backed them up at all.

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Moderator's Warning:
    Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appealThe personal attacks need to end. The flat out calling of individual posters bigots, homophobes, etc needs to end. The baiting behavior of attempting to interject individuals real life jobs and negative comments concerning it is also unneeded.

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    There have been a number of studies on gays as parents. Might read up and check the available information and post an argument based on that. I warn you, most of it shows gays at least as good as straits at raising children, with the most recent study of children raised by lesbian couples doing better than average.

    Without research and sourcing, your objection is just "I think", and not much good.
    I have, and you know it, or are you suggesting that my posts in other "gay" threads should be forgotten? I would start with Judith Tracy's study on homosexual parenting. It's illuminating. Of course you'd need to understand how to read the correlative value of the analysis, we already know some people on this forum are incapable of understaning risk through correlative value, but do try.

    In any event, one cannot deny that children do best, when both a mother, and a father are present. It not only applies in the instant case concerning gender, but it is also intrinsic to a healthy society. The heterosexual coupling is the type of coupling that society should recognize and afford special standing. There is a pressumption of procreative value to the heterosexual bond, whereas none whatsoever exists between that of a homosexual union.


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Except for one can not claim that procreation is the reason that the government has a vested interest in marriage. To do so one would need to have procreation being needed for marriage. It is not. Heterosexual couples that are have conditions making it impossible to create off spring can be married. Individuals who, if they have off spring, are far more likely to have physically or mentally damaged children are allowed or marry. Individuals with no desire to have kids and no plans to have kids can be married. Individuals who have had surgical procedures to keep themselves from having children can get married.

    There are numerous and repeated instances in our society where individuals who can not or will not have children are given marriage benefits therefore stating that that is the reason to deny same sex marriages on the basis of marriage being for procreation falls flat as if that was true the government would need more protections against non-procreating marriages than simply disallowing SSM.

    Indeed, two Same Sex individuals wishing to have a child are far more likely to produce said child than two individuals who do not wish to have a child and are not physically capable of carrying or creating one.

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    CC has already posted loads of actual scientific studies that are of a high standard with regards to the scientific method that debunk this.

    You've posted....

    ....

    Crap, was going to post what you've shown in support of your assertions but then I just realized you haven't backed them up at all.
    Uh huh.. Yes, and Stacey's study analyses them all. But that's neither here nor there. I'm not arguing that homosexual unions cannot have children through a variety of methods. I'm not even arguing that they can be as loving as heterosexual couples. It's immaterial to my argument.

    CC is NO authority on homosexuality. Show me something that he has written on homosexuality that would have you believe he has some superior unique knowledge unknown to any of us? I'd be glad to look at it. I'd ask him, and I have umpteen million times, but he hasn't shown me anything.

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Except for one can not claim that procreation is the reason that the government has a vested interest in marriage. To do so one would need to have procreation being needed for marriage. It is not. Heterosexual couples that are have conditions making it impossible to create off spring can be married. Individuals who, if they have off spring, are far more likely to have physically or mentally damaged children are allowed or marry. Individuals with no desire to have kids and no plans to have kids can be married. Individuals who have had surgical procedures to keep themselves from having children can get married.

    There are numerous and repeated instances in our society where individuals who can not or will not have children are given marriage benefits therefore stating that that is the reason to deny same sex marriages on the basis of marriage being for procreation falls flat as if that was true the government would need more protections against non-procreating marriages than simply disallowing SSM.

    Indeed, two Same Sex individuals wishing to have a child are far more likely to produce said child than two individuals who do not wish to have a child and are not physically capable of carrying or creating one.
    These are all examples of exceptions, they are NOT the rule. Society does have a vested interest in promoting, and even giving special recognition to heterosexual couplings. It is pressumed intrinsically that the heterosexual coupling will procreate, whereas there is NO pressumption that a homosexual coupling will.

    Enough said. Look, Zyphlin, you can't get around this. There is no way to argue that the homosexual coupling offers the same, or equal intrinsic value to society. It simply does not exist.

    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

  9. #179
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Uh huh.. Yes, and Stacey's study analyses them all. But that's neither here nor there. I'm not arguing that homosexual unions cannot have children through a variety of methods. I'm not even arguing that they can be as loving as heterosexual couples. It's immaterial to my argument.

    CC is NO authority on homosexuality. Show me something that he has written on homosexuality that would have you believe he has some superior unique knowledge unknown to any of us? I'd be glad to look at it. I'd ask him, and I have umpteen million times, but he hasn't shown me anything.

    Tim-
    CC's studies were debunked and exposed long ago relying on unsupervised questionnaires and studies that never once had any genetic or biological link to homosexuality in even 3/4 of homosexuals tested. Some people simply like holding onto the past.

    It is amusing for some to think its our responsibility to prove the genetic link to homosexuality or a "natural" link when they are the ones making the argument.
    Last edited by texmaster; 08-17-10 at 12:05 PM.
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  10. #180
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    Re: Court halts Calif. gay marriages pending appeal

    Ok, I'll be on later, I really, really must get back to work..


    Tim-
    “When buying and selling are controlled by legislation, the first things to be bought and sold are legislators.” - P. J. O’Rourke
    “Socialism is great until you run out of someone elses money” Margaret Thatcher

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