• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Judge: State ban on protests at military funerals unconstitutional

Orion said:
There are seldom limits to free speech but I think protesting a funeral should be one of them.

Or in the least, my right to shoot people who are protesting a funeral of my loved one.
Click to expand...

I think that should be so, too. I also think that building an offensive monument, next to hallowed ground should be limited, as well. i.e. the Ground Zero Mosque.

To all you Libbos...reap what you sow.
 
MaggieD said:
That's not quite true, Timorg. Not quite. Think about it. The same could be said of both sides if that were the case.

You're infringing on my right to a quiet funeral.
No! You're infringing on my right to protest the war.
Click to expand...

Then this country has lost all sense of civility. The logical place to protest the war would be in Washington or at the steps of the government, these people are simply harassing.
 
apdst said:
I think that should be so, too. I also think that building an offensive monument, next to hallowed ground should be limited, as well. i.e. the Ground Zero Mosque.

To all you Libbos...reap what you sow.
Click to expand...

Hmmm... I see now why the courts have to be uniform in their upholding of the first amendment... because people like you don't know what should be reasonably stopped.
 
Orion said:
Hmmm... I see now why the courts have to be uniform in their upholding of the first amendment... because people like you don't know what should be reasonably stopped.
Click to expand...

Come on, Orion. You've always known why the courts have to be uniform in their upholding of the First Amendment.
 
To me this is like protesting corporate greed at an unemployment office. This is harassment, not protest.
 
MaggieD said:
Come on, Orion. You've always known why the courts have to be uniform in their upholding of the First Amendment.
Click to expand...

In Canada hate speech is not allowed, which is why these creeps would have been dragged away for such disrespectful protests. I believe in freedom of speech, but not harassment.
 
Orion said:
Hmmm... I see now why the courts have to be uniform in their upholding of the first amendment... because people like you don't know what should be reasonably stopped.
Click to expand...

People like you, are the reason that laws are so ****ed up.

I'm waiting for all the Libbos, who support the right of the Ground Zero mosque to be built, to swoop in and support the rights of the Westboro Church, too. Where ya'll at? Hmm?
 
Last edited:
All the Constitutional rights supporters are strangely quiet on this thread. Trully Amazing!
 
apdst said:
All the Constitutional rights supporters are strangely quiet on this thread. Trully Amazing!
Click to expand...

Frankly, the Westboro people are so over the top, so vile, so hateful and disgusting, I think many may well be OK with this no matter how it plays later. It is sad any American would do what these sad people do.
 
Orion said:
In Canada hate speech is not allowed, which is why these creeps would have been dragged away for such disrespectful protests. I believe in freedom of speech, but not harassment.
Click to expand...

Fortunately, we're not in Canada, and protection of free speech isn't based on viewpoint content.
 
Can't they just make it extremely difficult to get a permit? Fees, waiting period, limit the number of permits. Permit funeral directors to erect walls in front of them...
 
Catz Part Deux said:
I figured that this was likely. These people are assholes, but assholes have a right to free speech, even if it offends us.

Actually, free speech isn't happening, in a lot of cases, if we AREN'T being offended. If that makes sense...If everything is sanitized, cleaned up, pc'ed, real free speech isn't actually happening.
Click to expand...

This is basically how I feel.

These guys are the scum of the Earth, but they have a right to do this.
 
hazlnut said:
Can't they just make it extremely difficult to get a permit? Fees, waiting period, limit the number of permits. Permit funeral directors to erect walls in front of them...
Click to expand...

Not consistently with the First Amendment, they can't.
 
hazlnut said:
Can't they just make it extremely difficult to get a permit? Fees, waiting period, limit the number of permits. Permit funeral directors to erect walls in front of them...
Click to expand...

You are aware that constitutional rights are not privileges granted by the government? Meaning we do not need to ask permission from the government to exercise them. If their protests blocked traffic I could see getting a permit to use the street but I think these protesters use the sidewalk.
 
Last edited:
Boo Radley said:
Frankly, the Westboro people are so over the top, so vile, so hateful and disgusting, I think many may well be OK with this no matter how it plays later. It is sad any American would do what these sad people do.
Click to expand...

I agree that these folks are scumbag mother****ers, but so are the people building a mosque next to Ground Zero.
 
apdst said:
I'm waiting for all the Libbos, who support the right of the Ground Zero mosque to be built, to swoop in and support the rights of the Westboro Church, too. Where ya'll at? Hmm?
Click to expand...
The First Amendment guarantees their right to free speech too. What is supposed to be so controversial about that?
 
If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. ~Noam Chomsky

It's interesting to me that these days, people calling themselves "very conservative" no longer believe in the constitution. Whether it's Westboro, the "ground zero" mosque, proposition 8... what happened to you people? Somebody really needs to come along and clean up the Republican party, it's pathetic to see what these people are endorsing. Besides, I'd love to see a party that embraces values I could vote for, since many Democrats these days are just as corrupt and partisan. I'll keep dreaming, I suppose.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Ah ****. :doh

Judge: State ban on protests at military funerals unconstitutional - CNN.com


You know, I may disagree with the judges ruling, but he's probably not wrong. Much as I hate the Westboro Baptist church and believe me I do. Is it HIGHLY unfortunately their right to do their hateful crap. Unless anyone here has a legal solution to this dilemna? :(

I'd certainly like to hear about it, cause the WBC is bull****, sick bastards. Which is why I have such respect for the patriot guard riders who went out and did what they did for as many families as they could, I thought that was really really cool.
Click to expand...



Damn 1st Amendment (he said, tongue firmly in cheek).

To the congregation of Fred Phelps I say: if your god tells you to use the grief of others for your political gain, then your god sucks.
 
I don't think many are surprised at this ruling. It was just about the only possible outcome. Freedoms are the most important when they are hardest to grant.
 
Jetboogieman said:
And finally we come to an agreeance. I can understand that, I actually can.

The trouble is, the road to painting all Islam is terror. It's such an easy road to go down it's scary. And that's the only thing I wish to avoid.

A good portion of the reasoning to oppose the mosque has included many lies about certain aspects of it, and a good deal of islamophobia. Which I don't appreciate.
Click to expand...

I think what he's getting at in a generla sense is this:

At times there are thing so offensive, so glaringly WRONG, in our eyes that even though we understand the law and the constitution and agree with it bieng upheld...it doesn't change the fact that deep down we'd really, really want to see the opposite happen in this one instance.

For you, you feel that way towards the WBC protesting funerals. Others feel that way about the mosque. You justify why you think its okay in one instance and not in the other, they justify why its okay in their instance. You're no different then them, you're experiencing the exact same emotion, you're just attempting to rationalize why yours is "better."

I think its a normal human emotion for people to express what you're saying here and what some are saying in the mosque thread. I think the issue is in EITHER instance is when people go from wishing it could be different, but realizing the more important thing is adherance to the constitution and our laws to instead feeling like thier particular issue is a worth while and legitimate reason to IGNORE the constitution and legitimatelly **** on it.
 
Oh, and just to make sure I get my daily "claim he's a libbo" in...

WBC most assuredly does have the right to do this. Its wrong of them, horrible, disgusting, and pathetic on their part. Put me on a Jury and I'd probably never convict someone who punched one of them out, "temporary insanity". But in regards to the actual law, and respecting the constitution because I am not a "when-it-benefits-me-constructionist"...this is the correct ruling.
 
Zyphlin said:
Oh, and just to make sure I get my daily "claim he's a libbo" in...

WBC most assuredly does have the right to do this. Its wrong of them, horrible, disgusting, and pathetic on their part. Put me on a Jury and I'd probably never convict someone who punched one of them out, "temporary insanity". But in regards to the actual law, and respecting the constitution because I am not a "when-it-benefits-me-constructionist"...this is the correct ruling.
Click to expand...

One of those things I find odd...

I find the WBC group about as offensive as can be. Even if they protested at just gay soldiers funerals, at least it would make sense, but protesting at the funerals of soldiers who not only where not gay, but had no control over the policy...that is just vile and insane.

However, if I was on the jury in your case of some one punching one of them out, if he did it, I would have to vote guilty, because I think laws are laws. I would not like doing it, it would be painful, but that is how I am.
 
Zyphlin said:
I think what he's getting at in a generla sense is this:

At times there are thing so offensive, so glaringly WRONG, in our eyes that even though we understand the law and the constitution and agree with it bieng upheld...it doesn't change the fact that deep down we'd really, really want to see the opposite happen in this one instance.

For you, you feel that way towards the WBC protesting funerals. Others feel that way about the mosque. You justify why you think its okay in one instance and not in the other, they justify why its okay in their instance. You're no different then them, you're experiencing the exact same emotion, you're just attempting to rationalize why yours is "better."

I think its a normal human emotion for people to express what you're saying here and what some are saying in the mosque thread. I think the issue is in EITHER instance is when people go from wishing it could be different, but realizing the more important thing is adherance to the constitution and our laws to instead feeling like thier particular issue is a worth while and legitimate reason to IGNORE the constitution and legitimatelly **** on it.
Click to expand...

Cute+cat+hands+up.jpg


You're right about one thing. My feelings in this matter are far stronger then the Mosque ones.

But as I said, my issue is the slippery slope to painting all Islam as terror. There's a fine line where prejudice starts, and persecution begins, you don't see me in here trying to paint all Christians as WBC.

My position on both matters I think was pretty clear, both have the rights to do what they're doing, but they really shouldn't be. Shoot me for being more emotionally involved in this case, because it's the families day to say their final goodbyes to their loved one, and there are a bunch of assholes standing there with signs saying "Thank god for dead troops" and "Fag troops this and that". It's a direct affront, as opposed to the mosque which is I believe is more of a suspected affront.

The Mosque might be an intentional kick in your teeth, but more likely not. Unless you're suggesting that the muslims will stand outside the mosque holding up signs praising allah for killing the infidels, in which case I'll be there to throw some pulled pork sandwiches at them, I think the suggestion that we should tell them to take their private land and their freedom of religion, pack it up and **** off might be a little far, they at this point should do it voluntarily to perhaps stop pissing you off but telling a bunch of pricks, to stand 300 meters away from a grieving family does not seem like a gross infringement of constitutional rights to me.
 
MaggieD said:
Those Patriot Guard Riders will probably be back. I hope so. If there is a God, I'm pretty sure he has something very special in store for those members participating in those mean-spirited demonstrations.
Click to expand...

I know some of these people, and I can tell you that they are veterans or family members, and are fanatical about what they do. If there is a way to "discourage" these protesters, I'm sure they'll find it.
 
How many other churches are in the vicinity of this mosque location?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom