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Thread: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    I would like the President to really attack this problem. That would include charging taxes on gas like they do in Europe. Do cap and trade so that the real cost of polluting products like coal are taxed accordingly. We also need to protect US companies that produce these green products. If not we will just create more jobs in China building solar panels and batteries for cars.
    That would be about the dumbest thing we could possibly do on very many levels. If/when "green" energy becomes economically feasable, it will happen, and it will happen bigger and better than any artificial government project could ever do. Charging punitive taxes on the lifeblood of this economy would be totally counter-productive, too. And implementing this on an economy that is in the toilet would just make everything worse.

    Whoever thinks this is a good idea should consult a psychiatrist.

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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Read Climate Confusion by Roy Spencer before deciding that Crap and Trade is a good idea. The only part of that bill that makes sense is the Architecture 2030 plan. It mandates new building codes aimed at energy efficiency in buildings, like we did for cars...
    Like I just said in a prior post, get your energy load minimized first. Once we stop wasting so much energy heating and cooling poorly built houses and commercial buildings, we might find that we need a lot fewer nuclear power plants to provide the energy needed to keep the economy going in the right direction.
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    yawn....

    Im sorry...I thought this was an intelligent discussion on future energy sources...
    Sure it is. And policy measures around said sources. One cannot "intelligently" discuss the latter without the former. Especially considering the OP started out exactly in that realm.
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Every part of getting off the grid is expensive....and none of it is permanent. There will be maintenance expenses. My last job involved mountain top microwave sites, and some times there was no grid to tie into. Even if there was, backup power was required.
    Each site had a propane tank, generators, battery banks, etc. The batteries were very low maintenance, but they were also large, heavy, and expensive. You really don't want to get off the grid until after you have done all you can to get your load minimized. Once that is done, your monthly bills will be low enough that getting off the grid won't make much sense.
    I understand, I've done a cost estimate on a moderate power usage home before.

    The first, best thing is to reduce consumption and stick to it.
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Interesting paper about the global market for ethanol.

    We analyze the impact of trade liberalization and removal of the federal tax credit in the United States on U.S. and Brazilian ethanol markets using a multi-market international ethanol model calibrated on 2005 market data and policies. The removal of trade distortions induces a 23.9 percent increase in the price of world ethanol on average between 2006 and 2015 relative to the baseline. The U.S. domestic ethanol price decreases by 13.6 percent, which results in a 7.2
    percent decline in production and a 3.6 percent increase in consumption. The lower domestic price leads to a 3.7 percent rise in the share of fuel ethanol in gasoline consumption. U.S. net ethanol imports increase by 199 percent. Brazil responds to the higher world ethanol price by increasing its production by 9.1 percent on average. Total ethanol consumption in Brazil decreases by 3.3 percent and net exports increase by 64 percent relative to the baseline. The higher ethanol price leads to a 4.9 percent increase in the share of sugarcane used in ethanol production. The removal of trade distortions and 51˘ per gallon tax credit to refiners blending ethanol induces a 16.5 percent increase in the world ethanol price.
    http://www.agmrc.org/media/cms/CARD0...9E7EDFDC5A.pdf
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldenboy219 View Post
    Interesting paper about the global market for ethanol.



    http://www.agmrc.org/media/cms/CARD0...9E7EDFDC5A.pdf
    It's Friday afternoon, so my brain can't handle numbers at the moment, but I would like to take this opportunity to bitch about ethanol and how big a scam it is.

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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    It's Friday afternoon, so my brain can't handle numbers at the moment, but I would like to take this opportunity to bitch about ethanol and how big a scam it is.
    If we used ALL our corn crops for fuel, and none for food, it would still displace only a small percentage of our gasoline use...
    Ethanol from crop and landscape waste products is the only way that it makes sense. Don't waste corn on cars. I like my chili cheese frito corn chips too much....
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by jambalaya View Post
    Speaking of Europe. Countries like England, France, Germany and Italy have much higher fuel prices than us right? Have they been driven to make progress on alternate sources of energy and new energy technology any more that us?
    I do not know much about their policies. I do know that France gets most of it's electricity from nuclear power.

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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    That would be about the dumbest thing we could possibly do on very many levels. If/when "green" energy becomes economically feasable, it will happen, and it will happen bigger and better than any artificial government project could ever do. Charging punitive taxes on the lifeblood of this economy would be totally counter-productive, too. And implementing this on an economy that is in the toilet would just make everything worse.

    Whoever thinks this is a good idea should consult a psychiatrist.
    We have been talking about this problem for more than 30 years. There is never a convienient time to fix this problem. America passes along hundreds of billions annually because this has not been fixed.

    A reason why the free market has a hard time coming up with an answer is that the oil cartel can fix the price. So if/ when we start working on alternatives, they could increase supply lower costs and make the projects uneconomic. Who would invest billions on finding a solution and building capacity faced with this?

    The type of thinking above which is heard from a majority of Americans assures we will never fix one of the greatest structural problems we have.

    People who think like that should probably take a basic logic course.

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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    That would be about the dumbest thing we could possibly do on very many levels. If/when "green" energy becomes economically feasable, it will happen, and it will happen bigger and better than any artificial government project could ever do. Charging punitive taxes on the lifeblood of this economy would be totally counter-productive, too. And implementing this on an economy that is in the toilet would just make everything worse.

    Whoever thinks this is a good idea should consult a psychiatrist.
    Specifically what is dumb? Taxing a negative externality (pollution), protecting infant industries, or is it subsidizing energy alternative products to make them more cost competitive and to encourage growth in this industry?



    Something to keep in mind.

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