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Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

Too bad so many people are out of work and can't afford to install those systems.

My ole lady is a believer in green energy. She invited some clown over to the house to show us his solar system. She **** a brick, when he told her it was 26 g's. That's when I reminded her that if Obama hadn't put the drilling moratorium in place, we could probably afford it.

Green energy is all fine-n-good, but since Obama has killed the job market, no one can afford to purchase the equipment. Those unintended consiquences are a mother ****er. Tax credits don't mean jack ****, when you don't have a job.
I looked into solar panels a while back just to see if I could get off the grid. I came to the same conclusion. As much solar paneling as I'd have to buy to make a dent in my (low) electricity bill, it would take a ridiculously long time to break even. They're gonna have to make huge strides in solar technology before it makes any economic sense.
 
so we are supposed to give up?

No one's saying that the greenie-weenies should give up. But, what we are saying, is that before your Libbos politicos pass legislation that kills jobs and forces green energy on the citizens of this country, at least have a goddamn plan and make damn sure that that plan is going to actually benefit the country, as a whole.

So far, you all have flopped on that part.
 
I looked into solar panels a while back just to see if I could get off the grid. I came to the same conclusion. As much solar paneling as I'd have to buy to make a dent in my (low) electricity bill, it would take a ridiculously long time to break even. They're gonna have to make huge strides in solar technology before it makes any economic sense.

What's even worse, is that when a hurricane comes roaring through and blows the panels all to hell, we have to foot the bill to fix them.
 
I looked into solar panels a while back just to see if I could get off the grid. I came to the same conclusion. As much solar paneling as I'd have to buy to make a dent in my (low) electricity bill, it would take a ridiculously long time to break even. They're gonna have to make huge strides in solar technology before it makes any economic sense.

It can work with a grid tie system (still being connected to the grid) and being in Texas, it actually could be worth it for you.

The first step is making your house more efficient first, to reduce over all consumption.
 
Frankly I think it should have been a part of building codes since the mid 80s. I think they should have eliminated 110VAC house power where possible. And if people dont WANT solar panels, then there is always candles. We mandate more efficient means of construction all the time. And OK...OK...heres a compromise...no mandating solar panels but higher energy rates or tax credits for those that implement them.

Or . . . we could let the market sort it out. Free choices made by people with their individualized needs in mind.
 
Or . . . we could let the market sort it out. Free choices made by people with their individualized needs in mind.

Sure we can...and have...and really arent any closer to 'energy independence'. I dont know if there is an easy answer. A lot of it is just working smarter...installing sun lights, turning off unneeded lighting, flash heaters, etc. One downside to solar panel (they have some very affordable very secure options that can provide virtually all your house current needs) is that if we do adopt a massive solar policy (even voluntary) then cities and states will loose a ton of tax revenue. I think if we at least promote change options we would see positive outcomes.
 
It can work with a grid tie system (still being connected to the grid) and being in Texas, it actually could be worth it for you.

The first step is making your house more efficient first, to reduce over all consumption.
Our house was built in 2007, so it's pretty efficient as it is. Since we're partially on gas, and since my wife insists on keeping the thermostat on 78° all summer (grr ...), we don't pay much at all for electricity. Anyway, for me to have enough panels to do much, I'd definitely draw fire from the HOA.

I was thinking less about efficiency and more about a "what if the **** hits the fan and the government collapses" sort of thing. I'm still thinking of getting a well one of these days so I could at least be self sufficient that way.
 
Our house was built in 2007, so it's pretty efficient as it is. Since we're partially on gas, and since my wife insists on keeping the thermostat on 78° all summer (grr ...), we don't pay much at all for electricity. Anyway, for me to have enough panels to do much, I'd definitely draw fire from the HOA.

I was thinking less about efficiency and more about a "what if the **** hits the fan and the government collapses" sort of thing. I'm still thinking of getting a well one of these days so I could at least be self sufficient that way.

That's part of my reasoning as well, plus I hate monthly bills.
I mean, I really hate perpetual monthly bills.

When we get a house, solar (maybe micro hydro if I can some land with a stream) is definitely in the works.

Batteries and a whole house inverter are last.
They are the most expensive one time part.
 
It can work with a grid tie system (still being connected to the grid) and being in Texas, it actually could be worth it for you.

The first step is making your house more efficient first, to reduce over all consumption.

No, the first step, is to come up with the 26 grand to buy that damn thing, to begin with. Tax credits don't mean ****, when you have to cough of 26 grand, up front.
 
That's part of my reasoning as well, plus I hate monthly bills.
I mean, I really hate perpetual monthly bills.

When we get a house, solar (maybe micro hydro if I can some land with a stream) is definitely in the works.

Batteries and a whole house inverter are last.
They are the most expensive one time part.
You hate monthly bills? Oh just wait 'til you get a house. You'll have bills coming out of your ass ...
 
You hate monthly bills? Oh just wait 'til you get a house. You'll have bills coming out of your ass ...

Yeah, owning a house will be your other full time job.
 
Sure we can...and have...and really arent any closer to 'energy independence'.

Maybe "we" don't particularly consider that a priority, or "we" consider the benefits of using oil more valuable.

Of course, my #1 priority is freedom, and if the market doesn't go the way I'd like it to, I'd rather have the freedom.
 

My sense is that these initiatives are how industry and government can cooperate effectively to create opportunities for Americans today as we transition to clean energy tomorrow.

I would like the President to really attack this problem. That would include charging taxes on gas like they do in Europe. Do cap and trade so that the real cost of polluting products like coal are taxed accordingly. We also need to protect US companies that produce these green products. If not we will just create more jobs in China building solar panels and batteries for cars.
 
Google the story of the Little Red Hen. Fools.
 
Maybe "we" don't particularly consider that a priority, or "we" consider the benefits of using oil more valuable.

Of course, my #1 priority is freedom, and if the market doesn't go the way I'd like it to, I'd rather have the freedom.

yawn....

Im sorry...I thought this was an intelligent discussion on future energy sources...
 
I would like the President to really attack this problem. That would include charging taxes on gas like they do in Europe. Do cap and trade so that the real cost of polluting products like coal are taxed accordingly. We also need to protect US companies that produce these green products. If not we will just create more jobs in China building solar panels and batteries for cars.

Speaking of Europe. Countries like England, France, Germany and Italy have much higher fuel prices than us right? Have they been driven to make progress on alternate sources of energy and new energy technology any more that us?
 
That's part of my reasoning as well, plus I hate monthly bills.
I mean, I really hate perpetual monthly bills.

When we get a house, solar (maybe micro hydro if I can some land with a stream) is definitely in the works.

Batteries and a whole house inverter are last.
They are the most expensive one time part.
Every part of getting off the grid is expensive....and none of it is permanent. There will be maintenance expenses. My last job involved mountain top microwave sites, and some times there was no grid to tie into. Even if there was, backup power was required.
Each site had a propane tank, generators, battery banks, etc. The batteries were very low maintenance, but they were also large, heavy, and expensive. You really don't want to get off the grid until after you have done all you can to get your load minimized. Once that is done, your monthly bills will be low enough that getting off the grid won't make much sense.
 
I would like the President to really attack this problem. That would include charging taxes on gas like they do in Europe. Do cap and trade so that the real cost of polluting products like coal are taxed accordingly. We also need to protect US companies that produce these green products. If not we will just create more jobs in China building solar panels and batteries for cars.

Whats-a-matter? The economy is doing too well for you? Wanna destroy it some more?
 
I would like the President to really attack this problem. That would include charging taxes on gas like they do in Europe. Do cap and trade so that the real cost of polluting products like coal are taxed accordingly. We also need to protect US companies that produce these green products. If not we will just create more jobs in China building solar panels and batteries for cars.
That would be about the dumbest thing we could possibly do on very many levels. If/when "green" energy becomes economically feasable, it will happen, and it will happen bigger and better than any artificial government project could ever do. Charging punitive taxes on the lifeblood of this economy would be totally counter-productive, too. And implementing this on an economy that is in the toilet would just make everything worse.

Whoever thinks this is a good idea should consult a psychiatrist.
 
Read Climate Confusion by Roy Spencer before deciding that Crap and Trade is a good idea. The only part of that bill that makes sense is the Architecture 2030 plan. It mandates new building codes aimed at energy efficiency in buildings, like we did for cars...
Like I just said in a prior post, get your energy load minimized first. Once we stop wasting so much energy heating and cooling poorly built houses and commercial buildings, we might find that we need a lot fewer nuclear power plants to provide the energy needed to keep the economy going in the right direction.
 
yawn....

Im sorry...I thought this was an intelligent discussion on future energy sources...

Sure it is. And policy measures around said sources. One cannot "intelligently" discuss the latter without the former. Especially considering the OP started out exactly in that realm.
 
Every part of getting off the grid is expensive....and none of it is permanent. There will be maintenance expenses. My last job involved mountain top microwave sites, and some times there was no grid to tie into. Even if there was, backup power was required.
Each site had a propane tank, generators, battery banks, etc. The batteries were very low maintenance, but they were also large, heavy, and expensive. You really don't want to get off the grid until after you have done all you can to get your load minimized. Once that is done, your monthly bills will be low enough that getting off the grid won't make much sense.

I understand, I've done a cost estimate on a moderate power usage home before.

The first, best thing is to reduce consumption and stick to it.
 
Interesting paper about the global market for ethanol.

We analyze the impact of trade liberalization and removal of the federal tax credit in the United States on U.S. and Brazilian ethanol markets using a multi-market international ethanol model calibrated on 2005 market data and policies. The removal of trade distortions induces a 23.9 percent increase in the price of world ethanol on average between 2006 and 2015 relative to the baseline. The U.S. domestic ethanol price decreases by 13.6 percent, which results in a 7.2
percent decline in production and a 3.6 percent increase in consumption. The lower domestic price leads to a 3.7 percent rise in the share of fuel ethanol in gasoline consumption. U.S. net ethanol imports increase by 199 percent. Brazil responds to the higher world ethanol price by increasing its production by 9.1 percent on average. Total ethanol consumption in Brazil decreases by 3.3 percent and net exports increase by 64 percent relative to the baseline. The higher ethanol price leads to a 4.9 percent increase in the share of sugarcane used in ethanol production. The removal of trade distortions and 51¢ per gallon tax credit to refiners blending ethanol induces a 16.5 percent increase in the world ethanol price.

http://www.agmrc.org/media/cms/CARD06WP_427_06A9E7EDFDC5A.pdf
 
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