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Thread: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Obviously right now it is an additive, maybe that is all it will ever be, but how is it a scam? If we eliminated our subsidies and protective tariffs on ethanol, it would cost less and we would import more of it. Ethanol can compete with other pertroleum products on its own. The question is whether or not we want to continue to protect, invest in, and grow the US ethanol industry or if we are fine importing the now superior product from brazil.
    Importing ethanol would defeat the entire purpose of using it. Gas is a much superior product to use in vehicles. Mileage with ethanol is significantly less than with gas. What makes you think ethanol from Brazil is superior to American ethanol??? Ethanol is ethanol. They just make it differently than we do.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Ethanol is a temporary solution. Not a permanent one. So yes the main question is if it is worth the cost. So far it can compete with natural gas as opposed to other clean energy solutions that aren't cost efficient right now due to lack of research and improvement. Should we invest in it? I wouldn't.
    I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    They can't use water from a river to produce ethanol, it has to be clean. Water used to refine oil is minicule compared to what is required to manufacture ethanol.
    Ethanol refining is an industrial process, it does not need potable water. They can treat water used in ethanol plants to the level that it needs to be in order to be used. They could use groundwater, surface water, waste water from municipal plants, or even re-use the water they already use. The average for the gallons of water used to refine a gallon of gasoline is 1.53. Ethanol is 3 gallons to one gallon of ethanol in the refining process. So it takes about 2 times as much. What it pales in comparison to is the amount of water it takes to crow corn, not the refining process.

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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by LimeLight View Post
    Ethanol is a temporary solution. Not a permanent one. So yes the main question is if it is worth the cost. So far it can compete with natural gas as opposed to other clean energy solutions that aren't cost efficient right now due to lack of research and improvement. Should we invest in it? I wouldn't.
    It isn't lack of research, there is lots of research going on. scientific breakthroughts don't happen on any kind of schedule, no matter how much money we throw at it...
    Ethanol production was good for farmers, for a while, now not so much. Last year, maybe longer, the news showed an ethanol plant sitting idle, empty, doing nothing except draining dollars from the govt subsidies...
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    It amazes me the line of pure bunk that the American people are being fed on this supposed "Green Energy"... None of this crap is proven and experts say that it will be decades before we see any real sustainable energy able to replace fossil fuels in this world if ever. Yet we allow our elected "leaders" to cut current methods of energy production, causing rising pricing, and artificial shortages.

    Remember when the argument from the liberal left was that drilling can't be allowed because it takes too long to bring that energy to market? Well, where is their alternatives? They may never happen that's where. In the mean time they are making us MORE dependent on imports, not less.

    What a joke.


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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Importing ethanol would defeat the entire purpose of using it. Gas is a much superior product to use in vehicles. Mileage with ethanol is significantly less than with gas. What makes you think ethanol from Brazil is superior to American ethanol??? Ethanol is ethanol. They just make it differently than we do.
    Because they can grow sugarcane in brazil. It is cheaper to make cheaper to buy than corn ethanol and and depending upon the price of crude oil, cheaper than gasoline.

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    Advisor LimeLight's Avatar
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    It isn't lack of research, there is lots of research going on. scientific breakthroughts don't happen on any kind of schedule, no matter how much money we throw at it...
    Ethanol production was good for farmers, for a while, now not so much. Last year, maybe longer, the news showed an ethanol plant sitting idle, empty, doing nothing except draining dollars from the govt subsidies...
    So more research on these technologies wont speed up a breakthrough? I don't know about that. We did it with atomic bombs. Do we have to be in absolute turmoil to rush a scientific breakthrough?

    I have nothing against ethanol and if we have idle plants laying around I say fire those suckers up. But I just don't believe it's an ideal permanent solution. If we are going to invest into something, it should be solar or wind.
    I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

    Umberto Eco

  8. #138
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Because they can grow sugarcane in brazil. It is cheaper to make cheaper to buy than corn ethanol and and depending upon the price of crude oil, cheaper than gasoline.
    Brazil has an advantage, more raw land, better climate, much more water, etc. for sugar cane production. So it is cheaper, even adding transportation to the costs. Doesn't mean we should be buying it. We could probably save more more gasoline by reducing speed limits than by importing ethanol from Brazil to dilute the gasoline we have.


    We need to deal with our energy needs without too much involvement from foreign countries.
    The primary need is oil, electricity is not in short supply and we can easily build more power plants.

    OIL is the primary issue...
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by LimeLight View Post
    So more research on these technologies wont speed up a breakthrough? I don't know about that. We did it with atomic bombs. Do we have to be in absolute turmoil to rush a scientific breakthrough?

    I have nothing against ethanol and if we have idle plants laying around I say fire those suckers up. But I just don't believe it's an ideal permanent solution. If we are going to invest into something, it should be solar or wind.
    Solar and wind are not alternatives to oil, they are at best a supplement to electricity....here is a good article about energy, the man knows what he is talking about.

    http://www.questar.com/1OurCompany/n.../UVUSpeech.pdf
    Oracle of Utah
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Brazil has an advantage, more raw land, better climate, much more water, etc. for sugar cane production. So it is cheaper, even adding transportation to the costs. Doesn't mean we should be buying it. We could probably save more more gasoline by reducing speed limits than by importing ethanol from Brazil to dilute the gasoline we have.


    We need to deal with our energy needs without too much involvement from foreign countries.
    The primary need is oil, electricity is not in short supply and we can easily build more power plants.

    OIL is the primary issue...

    I agree with you here Bill, although ethanol is not even a good additive to stretch our own production because of what it does to the cost of food sources here in America.

    We have plenty of oil, and should be drilling our own resource here to ween off of imports, while at the same time developing alternatives.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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