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Thread: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

  1. #111
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    Good point, so the question to answer is:

    Can renewable energies make money for individuals?

    Lets look at ethanol for example. For that I will refer to the paper Goldenboy219 cited. Ethanol produced in Brazil is cost competitive with oil. Brazil has comparative advantage when producing ethanol. So, to continue the growth of the US ethanol industry we have created a system that subsidizes ethanol ($.51) and places a tariff on ethanol to prevent this subsidy from leaving the country and to protect US industry. Without the subsidy or tariff, ethanol would still be cost competitive only it would be made in Brazil.
    It takes 3 gallons of water to make one gallon of ethonal. Those 3 gallons come out of the other end as waste water. Figured out what you're going to do with that? I don't think it would be wise to turn our food and water supply into our fuel supply. It would be self defeating.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It takes 3 gallons of water to make one gallon of ethonal. Those 3 gallons come out of the other end as waste water. Figured out what you're going to do with that? I don't think it would be wise to turn our food and water supply into our fuel supply. It would be self defeating.
    I have figured it out, see the clean water act for details.

  3. #113
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    It takes 3 gallons of water to make one gallon of ethonal. Those 3 gallons come out of the other end as waste water. Figured out what you're going to do with that? I don't think it would be wise to turn our food and water supply into our fuel supply. It would be self defeating.
    Water is fairly easy to extract from the wastes, or vice versa. But it takes energy that further reduces the profitability of the ethanol process. The cheapest way is probably evaporation ponds, but they don't work very well during the winter months.

    I suppose it depends on just what is in the waste besides the water.

    I use to live near a potato processing plant that dumped its waste water onto farmers fields. It smelled bad, but made alfalfa
    grow like the proverbial weed.
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    We have been talking about this problem for more than 30 years. There is never a convienient time to fix this problem. America passes along hundreds of billions annually because this has not been fixed.
    Unsubstantiated speculation.
    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    A reason why the free market has a hard time coming up with an answer is that the oil cartel can fix the price. So if/ when we start working on alternatives, they could increase supply lower costs and make the projects uneconomic. Who would invest billions on finding a solution and building capacity faced with this?
    Why would oil companies not diversify if, according to the grossly ignorant, the petroleum supply is unsustainable for the near future? Would they just shrug their shoulders and go out of business when all the oil is gone?
    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    The type of thinking above which is heard from a majority of Americans assures we will never fix one of the greatest structural problems we have.
    We will if/when it becomes economically feasable.
    Quote Originally Posted by washunut View Post
    People who think like that should probably take a basic logic course.
    I took Logic 101 in the spring of my freshman year in college. When did you take it?

  5. #115
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    Water is fairly easy to extract from the wastes, or vice versa. But it takes energy that further reduces the profitability of the ethanol process. The cheapest way is probably evaporation ponds, but they don't work very well during the winter months.
    Evaporating ponds will only cause us to relive history, when coporation weren't following government regulation on proper lining of subterrainial vessels. The only difference will be, that this time, they're doing it with the government's blessing.

    I suppose it depends on just what is in the waste besides the water.

    I use to live near a potato processing plant that dumped its waste water onto farmers fields. It smelled bad, but made alfalfa
    grow like the proverbial weed.
    Ethonal has rust inhibitors and algaecides.

    This sounds like ground water contamination, waiting for a place to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by drz-400 View Post
    I have figured it out, see the clean water act for details.
    Care to show us where in the clean water act, that it describes the procedure for cleaning the waste water created by ethonal production? Thanks in advance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    If we used ALL our corn crops for fuel, and none for food, it would still displace only a small percentage of our gasoline use...
    Ethanol from crop and landscape waste products is the only way that it makes sense. Don't waste corn on cars. I like my chili cheese frito corn chips too much....
    Ethanol is nothing but a thinly-disguised corn subsidy that is a terrible fuel and something nobody would use if there wasn't a gun pointed to their head.

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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    Ethanol is nothing but a thinly-disguised corn subsidy that is a terrible fuel and something nobody would use if there wasn't a gun pointed to their head.
    They tried it back before cars had fuel injection and sealed gas tanks. You should see what it does to a carburetor....
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    If we are goint to subsidize clean energy, nuclear deserves more subsidies than coal.
    No disagreement there. I'm just pointing out that nuclear has a huge amount of subsidies behind it. And that more drilling doesn't make us any more secure. Especially looking at best possible extraction rates compared to most optimistic conservative demand growth over the next 50 years. Highest increases in supply with lowest increases in demand is pretty grim. So going to reasonable extraction and reasonable growth is desperate.

    Why do we subsidize old and dirty technology?
    Cuz Congress is a bunch of whores. Or as one of my favorite old shows say "Parliment is full of genetic defects."
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    Re: Obama Says Commitment to Clean Energy Will Boost Jobs

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post

    My sense is that these initiatives are how industry and government can cooperate effectively to create opportunities for Americans today as we transition to clean energy tomorrow.
    2012, hmmmm I wonder what's significant about that year.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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