• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

The problem is that religion can't coexist with growth as a species and rational thinking. ANY religion.
 
The problem is that religion can't coexist with growth as a species and rational thinking. ANY religion.

so how did humanity evolve to the point it has when taking into consideration that religion has been the one uniting factor of all human cultures?
 
so how did humanity evolve to the point it has when taking into consideration that religion has been the one uniting factor of all human cultures?

We haven't grown, can't you tell?
 
so how did humanity evolve to the point it has when taking into consideration that religion has been the one uniting factor of all human cultures?

A) We evolved in spite of religion, we evolved when we shelved religion for secularism.

B) If there's one thing religion is not it's a unifying factor.
 
You may want to check your facts. Countries that live under Sharia law rarely if ever execute people for having premarital sex.

Having trouble reading eh? I said "and/or corporal punishment."

For adultery yes, and even this is dwindling down. Pakistan recently removed adultery from the list of capital crimes. I guess, according to you they are considered heretics?

It was a change in the penal code not the law. And to my knowledge they did not remove adultery from the list of capital crimes, what they did was reform the Hudood Ordinance so that rape can now be prosecuted in civil rather than sharia court; whereas, prior rape was prosecuted in sharia courts and if the women could not provide the requisite number of male witnesses their accusation of rape was taken as confession to adultery.
 
Last edited:
The problem is that religion can't coexist with growth as a species and rational thinking. ANY religion.

That's a pretty bold statement considering some of the folks on your side (e.g., communists).
 
Extremist radical Muslims, including our own president,

Moderator's Warning:
One warning was already posted early in this thread, I'll reiterate it here since its been a number of pages.

Take the conspiracy theory arguments to the appropriate forum. Any continued attempts at derailing this thread by insinuating that the President is a muslim will result in poinst and a thread ban.

Additionally, as warned earlier, personal attacks and posts dedicated solely to insulting other posters will have action taken against them.

This is a hot topic, lets try to keep the flames down to a minimum.
 
A) We evolved in spite of religion, we evolved when we shelved religion for secularism.
so how did Ancient Egypt, one of the most religious societies in history manage to exist for as long as it did, and be as powerful as it was?
B) If there's one thing religion is not it's a unifying factor.
It is a terrific unifying factor, look at the Crusades, you had people from european countries that had been warring for centuries put aside their differences for a common cause, certainly it's not a universal unifying factor, but name one thing that is.
 
Moderator's Warning:
One warning was already posted early in this thread, I'll reiterate it here since its been a number of pages.

Take the conspiracy theory arguments to the appropriate forum. Any continued attempts at derailing this thread by insinuating that the President is a muslim will result in poinst and a thread ban.

Additionally, as warned earlier, personal attacks and posts dedicated solely to insulting other posters will have action taken against them.

This is a hot topic, lets try to keep the flames down to a minimum.

Well Z, you know that what the President is doing will only further that belief by some folks. Frankly I think he'd be smarter to just shut up.
 
"That's a pretty bold statement considering some of the folks on your side (e.g., communists)."

Ha ha, you got me... I would have got away with it if it wasn't for you darn free market capitalists.
 
Lew Rockwell makes an interesting comment about how there is still nothing there at ground zero.

Amidst all the talk of “ground 0″ as secularly holy, and not to be defiled by an Islamic educational center four blocks away, ever notice that with government in charge, it is still just a hole in the ground all these years later? Sell the hole to the highest bidders, and let them build some productive enterprises there. Reject Palin, Gingrich, Boehner, Foxman, and other merchants of hate. We don’t need a blowback memorial.

Government Hole « LewRockwell.com Blog
 
so how did Ancient Egypt, one of the most religious societies in history manage to exist for as long as it did, and be as powerful as it was?

It was powerful at its height, but it was, also, tyrannical. You consider ancient Egypt to be an evolved civilization?

It is a terrific unifying factor, look at the Crusades,

Yes look at the Crusades, you had Western Christians killing Byzantine Christines, Muslims and Christians fighting a huge war, Christians persecuting Jews etc. Ya religion was really unifying. :roll:

you had people from european countries that had been warring for centuries put aside their differences for a common cause,


You use a religious war to say that religion is a unifying factor.

certainly it's not a universal unifying factor, but name one thing that is.

Secular democracy, secular democracies do not go to war with one another IE Democratic Peace Theory. Capitalism is another unifying factor IE the Golden Arches Peace Theory of Conflict Resolution.
 
It was powerful at its height, but it was, also, tyrannical. You consider ancient Egypt to be an evolved civilization?
for it's time, it was.


Yes look at the Crusades, you had Western Christians killing Byzantine Christines, Muslims and Christians fighting a huge war, Christians persecuting Jews etc. Ya religion was really unifying. :roll:
You use a religious war to say that religion is a unifying factor.

exactly, it unified the western christians.

Secular democracy, secular democracies do not go to war with one another IE Democratic Peace Theory. Capitalism is another unifying factor IE the Golden Arches Peace Theory of Conflict Resolution.

excellent, now show me a secular democracy that has lasted longer than a religious monarchy.

and i hadn't heard the golden arches peace theory, so i looked it up on wikipedia, and found this.
In The Lexus and the Olive Tree, Thomas L. Friedman coins the "Golden Arches Theory of Conflict Prevention" - that no two countries that both have a McDonald's franchise would be likely to fight a war. The 2008 South Ossetia war, however, is a counterexample.
 
for it's time, it was.

And they're still not secular and how evolved would consider them today?

exactly, it unified the western christians.

Into a war with another religion. The war not the religion was the unifying factor and the war was caused by religious division.

excellent, now show me a secular democracy that has lasted longer than a religious monarchy.

Though not strictly secular in the modern sense the Roman Republic lasted longer than the Roman Kingdom.

and i hadn't heard the golden arches peace theory, so i looked it up on wikipedia, and found this.

One counterexample, the exception the rule.
 
That is the very link I provided.



He supports sharia his only opposition is on the strict penal codes which means that he supports criminalizing homosexuality, apostasy, etc and supports sexist inheritence policies, and everything else sharia entails. He wants a sharia compliant U.S. or in his words: "ensure that their secular laws are not in conflict with the Quran or the Hadith."


He said that the U.S. was an accessory to the 9-11 attacks.



He said that the U.S. is an accessory to 9-11 IE he blamed the U.S. for 9-11.



He blamed the U.S. for 9-11. He said that U.S. actions made us an accessory to the crime. This is a definitive clear cut case of blaming the victim.



He has said or refused to say everything I claimed, and supports everything I claimed he supported.

Yes, I know it is the link you provided. But you seem to misread his comments very badly.

Did you happen to catch the Daily Show last night?

Jon Stewart - Daily Show | Ground Zero Mosque | Glenn Beck | Mediaite

Seemsbeck says the same thing. he must be a radical muslm, right?

For everything you quote, you totally misread, misstate, and misunderstand. In other words, you have it all completely wrong.
 
Last edited:
OMG, really?! We must stop them! There is a Muslim terrorist organization that is trying to build a Mosque in Manhattan simply to spite Americans and as a symbol of their conquest over America! They have even infiltrated the Whitehouse by putting one of their own in office! Haven't you seen his middle name?! Isn't it obvious he's a terrorist Muslim?! Our country is getting taken over by Muslims and by communist and by socialist and by a black Hitler all at the same time!! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

That's what she said!!! ;)
 
Have you ever sat down and talked to a Muslim? Do you also think that all Jews have a little bag of fake gold on their neck as a decoy for the real bag of gold they have in their sock?

My niece-in-law is a muslim.
 
Yes, I know it is the link you provided. But you seem to misread his comments very badly.

No I did not, he clearly said that he supports Sharia and his only problem is with the penal code.

Did you happen to catch the Daily Show last night?

Jon Stewart - Daily Show | Ground Zero Mosque | Glenn Beck | Mediaite

Seemsbeck says the same thing. he must be a radical muslm, right?

For everything you quote, you totally misread, misstate, and misunderstand. In other words, you have it all completely wrong.

A) Yes I saw it and I don't give a **** what Jon Stewart says and even less what Glenn Beck says.

B) Glenn Beck did not say that the U.S. was an accessory to 9-11. Glenn Beck did not say that OBL was made in the USA, Glenn Beck does not call for a Sharia compliant U.S., and Glenn Beck does not refuse to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization.
 
I don't really want to wade into this too much, I do have two points:

1) He said "What Muslims want is a judiciary that ensures that the laws are not in conflict with the Qur'an and the Hadith. " That's not exactly in the spirit of baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet.

2) Supporting that their Constitutional rights and property rights be upheld does not require defense of him substantively. It's perfectly legitimate to look into what they're actually in favor of.
 
Question to liberals:

* Why support Islam when it is anti-feminist, anti-gay, homophobia, anti-transgendered and anti-Semitic?
 
Back
Top Bottom