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President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

Coronado said:
It's not a perfect example, I'll admit. I'll have to think about some other way to put it.

Rest assured though that my opposition to the location of the mosque doesn't come from or cause me to want to cause harm to the average Muslim. Far from it.
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I am glad you say that. And maybe I indeed overreact. But the problem is, I have encountered so much stereotyping xenophobia against Muslims so far, that I have a hard time believing that not many of these 68% have a general hate problem. Not saying you aren't an exception, but the general situation is pretty bad. It seems to be en vogue these days to single out scapegoats and to stereotype foreigners once again. And that worries me.

So thanks for your calm contribution. I appreciate it.
 
German guy said:
Very different situations.
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Really how so?

And yes, people who believe "Islam = terrorism" like you have eqloquently demonstrated, are indeed "in line with the Nazis ready to goosestep people into the ovens". You may all disagree, but I indeed believe that once you have embraced this stereotyping hatred and bigotry, 90% of the way into the ovens has been taken already. It was not different in Germany in the 1930s and 40s.
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No I have not stated that Islam = terrorism, but I have stated that mainstream Islam = oppressive ideology, not because I'm a bigot but because it's a ****ing fact.


Oh yeah, now the conspiracy theories. Of course, if you are afraid of Muslims in general, alltogether and alike, you could see it this way, of course ...
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It's not a conspiracy theory it's a fact, the guy spearheading this Mosque blamed the U.S. for 9-11 and said that OBL was made in the USA less than 3 weeks after the 9-11 attacks, he likewise wants a Sharia compliant U.S., and refuses to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization.

The claims that this is an act of cultural outreach and not an act of provocation simply do not hold water, because if that were the case then why build a Mosque rather than a memorial to the victims of 9-11? If this was about cultural outreach then why are no other prayer services other than Islamic ones being held at this "community center"?


Yeah, among the people who call themselves Muslims, there are quite a few backward idiots (maybe even more than among Christians). But only the fewest of them support terrorism. And you always got quite a few Muslims who don't take their religion very seriously. You should talk with Muslims once.
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That says absolutely nothing about the ideology any more than a pro-choice Cathlic says about the Catholic Church's stance on abortion, and I seriously doubt that Mosque building Imam's don't take their religion very seriously.
 
German guy said:
I am glad you say that. And maybe I indeed overreact. But the problem is, I have encountered so much stereotyping xenophobia against Muslims so far, that I have a hard time believing that not many of these 68% have a general hate problem. Not saying you aren't an exception, but the general situation is pretty bad. It seems to be en vogue these days to single out scapegoats and to stereotype foreigners once again. And that worries me.

So thanks for your calm contribution. I appreciate it.
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Where exactly have you encountered this stereotyping? I don't think it is any more common here than anywhere else.
 
Holy Hell......
I sleep for 8 hours and I can't even catch up without getting bored of the same comments back and forth between the same people.....

I don't understand how people can continue to go on forever trying to get the last word.

This thread = :beatdeadhorse

Stick a fork in it... its done.
 
To Conservatives Hussein Obama is the gift that keeps on giving.........
 
What as 2 faced coward this man is.............In front of a muslim audience he tells them what they want to hear.................The next day a thousand miles away in front a different audience he is singing a different tune...........
 
Hi, I'm a conservative, and I don't read history books, therefore I don't know that being a religious bigot and trying to start a religious war is completely unoriginal and played out. I don't know about the religious violence that has taken place in Ireland, France, the Balkans and I conveniently consider my hatred of Muslims to be different than Hitler's hatred of the Jews. Since I don't know history, I'm doomed to try and repeat it, therefore, our kids will be able to read about more religious wars and the educated ones will wonder how we could have been so beast-headed! Of course, the dumb kids who didn't read those books will find a group of people to hate and simply continue the cycle. And they will probably call themselves conservatives! :slapme:
 
Johnny DooWop said:
Hi, I'm a conservative, and I don't read history books, therefore I don't know that being a religious bigot and trying to start a religious war is completely unoriginal and played out. I don't know about the religious violence that has taken place in Ireland, France, the Balkans and I conveniently consider my hatred of Muslims to be different than Hitler's hatred of the Jews. Since I don't know history, I'm doomed to try and repeat it, therefore, our kids will be able to read about more religious wars and the educated ones will wonder how we could have been so beast-headed! Of course, the dumb kids who didn't read those books will find a group of people to hate and simply continue the cycle. And they will probably call themselves conservatives! :slapme:
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Not even close.

The jews didn't blow up 3000 of Hitler's folks before he decided to kill them all.

We haven't been systematically killing muslims.


Your comparison is kinda lame bro.
 
What comment did I make about another member?
 
Caine said:
Not even close.

The jews didn't blow up 3000 of Hitler's folks before he decided to kill them all.

We haven't been systematically killing muslims.


Your comparison is kinda lame bro.
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Not entirely true either.

During the war in Kosovo and the surrounding area, Albanian Muslims were targeted an killed in mass.
 
Newt Gingrinch leads us into a Nazi theme …

“Nazis don’t have the right to put up a sign next to the Holocaust Museum in Washington. We would never accept the Japanese putting up a site next to Pearl Harbor. There’s no reason for us to accept a Mosque next to the World Trade Center.”

— former House Speaker Newt Gingrich¹​

To which his opponents are more mindful of history's lessons …

“In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;
And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;
And then … they came for me … And by that time there was no one left to speak up.”

— Pastor Martin Niemöller²​

The warning is clear.
 
Caine said:
The jews didn't blow up 3000 of Hitler's folks before he decided to kill them all.
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Yea but Hitler accused them of "stabbing German's in the back" by supposedly sabotaging WWI and therefore causing Germany to lose the war, and he also accused them for the Great Depression, for Germany's hyperinflation and believed in a Zionist world conspiracy.

Caine said:
We haven't been systematically killing muslims.


Your comparison is kinda lame bro.
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There are some people on this forum, who if given the power, would do just that. Some have blatantly admitted they "hate" Muslims and consider themselves "Islamaphobes". Don't mistakenly think Hitler was the only genocidal sociopath, there are many of them out there. He is just one of the few to achieve such a high position of power to act on his beliefs.
 
Johnny DooWop said:
Yea but Hitler accused them of "stabbing German's in the back" by supposedly sabotaging WWI and therefore causing Germany to lose the war, and he also accused them for the Great Depression, for Germany's hyperinflation and believed in a Zionist world conspiracy.



There are some people on this forum, who if given the power, would do just that. Some have blatantly admitted they "hate" Muslims and consider themselves "Islamaphobes". Don't mistakenly think Hitler was the only genocidal sociopath, there are many of them out there. He is just one of the few to achieve such a high position of power to act on his beliefs.
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Well, we the people won't give those people the power to do that. So its a non point.

And what reality is, and what Hitler claims those people to have done are two different things.

We know that muslim extremist terrorists blew up WTC on 9/11, it isn't a false accusation comparable to Hitler's.

Again, your compairson is lame.
 
Johnny DooWop said:
Hi, I'm a conservative, and I don't read history books, therefore I don't know that being a religious bigot and trying to start a religious war is completely unoriginal and played out. I don't know about the religious violence that has taken place in Ireland, France, the Balkans and I conveniently consider my hatred of Muslims to be different than Hitler's hatred of the Jews. Since I don't know history, I'm doomed to try and repeat it, therefore, our kids will be able to read about more religious wars and the educated ones will wonder how we could have been so beast-headed! Of course, the dumb kids who didn't read those books will find a group of people to hate and simply continue the cycle. And they will probably call themselves conservatives! :slapme:
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Understood, now let's build a German Cultural center next to Aushwitz and an Orthodox Cathedral in the town of Srebrenica. If you think that would be completely inappropriate, offensive, and in bad taste then you must be a bigot in line with the Nazi's ready to goosestep people into the ovens. :roll:
 
Agent Ferris said:
Understood, now let's build a German Cultural center next to Aushwitz and an Orthodox Cathedral in the town of Srebrenica. If you think that would be completely inappropriate, offensive, and in bad taste then you must be a bigot in line with the Nazi's ready to goosestep people into the ovens. :roll:
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Did you just copy-paste one of your own post? Wow. Anyway, 2/3 of Germans didn't vote for Hitler and the political party who opposed Nazism was the one put in power by Allies when they were defeated. Jewish Poles should associate their genocide with the racist, extremist Nazis who executed those acts, not all Germans. Even still, that genocide was state backed, while the 9/11 terrorist attacks were not praised, backed or supported by any major Islamic sect.

Conservatives pretending to be anarchist aren't cool.
 
Johnny DooWop said:
Did you just copy-paste one of your own post? Wow. Anyway, 2/3 of Germans didn't vote for Hitler and the political party who opposed Nazism was the one put in power by Allies when they were defeated. Jewish Poles should associate their genocide with the racist, extremist Nazis who executed those acts, not all Germans. Even still, that genocide was state backed, while the 9/11 terrorist attacks were not praised, backed or supported by any major Islamic sect.
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So not only are the people living under the state responsible for all the actions taken by the state but so are their descendents and their descendents descendents? You are an anti-German bigot. But hey since you don't like that idea then let's build an Orthodox Cathedral in the town of Srebrenica. Remember opposition makes you a Nazi bigot.


Conservatives pretending to be anarchist aren't cool.
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Leftists claiming to support property rights are even cooler.
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
During the war in Kosovo and the surrounding area, Albanian Muslims were targeted an killed in mass.
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During WW2, Albanian Muslims killed hundreds of thousands of people. Pay back is a mother****er, ain't it?
 
Agent Ferris said:
So not only are the people living under the state responsible for all the actions taken by the state but so are their descendents and their descendents descendents? You are an anti-German bigot. But hey since you don't like that idea then let's build an Orthodox Cathedral in the town of Srebrenica. Remember opposition makes you a Nazi bigot.
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I understand that the situation is touchy. I was really weirded out by the mosque idea when I first heard it. However, when you were younger and someone did something wrong to you did and you wanted get them back, did you ever hear one of your parents say "Don't sink to their level. Be the better person." If A**holes in this world make nice people turn into A**holes, then the world will be filled with A**holes! That's why people like me believe in letting these Muslims, who have no connection to the 9/11 attacks, or to terrorism, and who have condemned the attacks, build their Mosque. Its kind of like how other countries allow their officers to torture and starve POWs while we don't. Sure we could be like one of those European countries that fosters religious division and holds bitterly to previous conflicts, or we could be the better guys. And that's the difference between conservatives (even the ones who pretend to be anarchist) and liberals. Liberals want to make the world a better, more tolerant place. While conservatives want to foster religious division and discriminate against people because of their race, religion and sexual-orientation.
 
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