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President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

Of course, Obama is going to come out in favor of fellow Muslims.
 
Harshaw said:
Wait a minute . . .

You actually didn't think that most -- or even any -- Muslim countries have membership in the UN? Seriously? And you insinuate that said lack of membership is propogated mostly by us, and that's why they try to hit us? Or at least partially?

And you were lecturing people about studying history?
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BDBoop said:
I didn't see anything remotely approaching a lecture.
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Nope, sure didn't. I provided a hyperthetical as to what might be the origins of some Muslim extremist hatred towards the U.S. and asked questions to hopefully engage people's minds just a little. Didn't claim to be presenting anything factual.

BTW, the history lesson I was referrig to in that post was directed at WWII and why Japan attacked us, but the under-tone as to why radical Islam and Muslim extremists hate us so could stem from the same thing...U.S. foreign policy both governing bodies disagreed with. That was the point I was attempting to address. But again, we can save that for another debate.

I think my point has been made as far as why it was important for the President to support the building of this Mosque. We may not like it, but to not to do so would tread on our American values and the rule of law.
 
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Harshaw said:
Then you haven't read the thread:
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Yes, I did. He would have had to talk a great deal longer for what he said to constitute a lecture. That was a suggestion.
 
BDBoop said:
Yes, I did. He would have had to talk a great deal longer for what he said to constitute a lecture. That was a suggestion.
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No, it was a snipy little lecture, and an incredibly ironic one at that. But, obviously you're going to take his side no matter what, so whatevs.
 
Objective Voice said:
Nope, sure didn't. I provided a hyperthetical as to what might be the origins of some Muslim extremist hatred towards the U.S. and asked questions to hopefully engage people's minds just a little. Didn't claim to be presenting anything factual.
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Dude, you said this:

Objective Voice said:
I didn't say that our support of Arab/Isreal in and of itslef led to 9/11. I said maybe...maybe some of our foreign policies that led the way for exclusion of Muslim nations from the world stage but fostered inclusion of Arab/Isreal may have led to Muslim extremism that eventually led to 9/11. I also said that history may prove our position to have been correct.

Let me ask you these questions:

When exactly did Iran become a member of the U.N.?

How many other Muslim nations are also part of this world organization?

Why are they excluded?

What nation primarily has led the way for their exclusion?

Why are they set apart from participating in shaping world policies?

Again, I'm not saying that their exclusion was not justified. I am saying, however, that doing so may have led to the growth of Muslim extremism over the years and how radical Muslim extremist saw fit to project their anger at the U.S. on that faithful day.
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That was not a "hypothetical." You presented it in such a way that it was clear you actually thought there were no Muslim countries in the UN and that the US was the primary force keeping them out.

If it was a hypothetical, which, again, it clearly was not, it was an exceedingly silly one, because it has nothing whatsoever to do with actual history. You might as well have said "why have we been nuking them into glass once a year, every year, since 1945? Do you think that may be why they hate us?" It would have as much relevance to anything as what you actually did post.


BTW, the history lesson I was referrig to in that post was directed at WWII and why Japan attacked us, but the under-tone as to why radical Islam and Muslim extremists hate us so could stem from the same thing...U.S. foreign policy both governing bodies disagreed with. That was the point I was attempting to address. But again, we can save that for another debate.
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I'm well aware of what "lesson" you were referring to, and I responded to it then. But if our foreign policy was correct, and they attacked us for that foreign policy, then I'd say they're the ones deserving OUR scorn, not the other way around. See, when you try to get too cute, you often prove too much.
 
Objective Voice said:
Well, let's try to atleast provide some room for an honest mistake, shall we?
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No. It's clear the imam promoting this temple to terrorism is a supporter of terrorism himself.

So, being objective, I refuse to say the guilty are the innocent and the thousands of dead Americans share the guilt.

I mean, if it is discovered that a supporter of terrorism or a terrorist organization used some "shadow" entity to funnel money to the Mosque's construction, for example, and the Mosque's owner knew nothing of the contributor's true identity,
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And if the three blind mice had hearing aids, they'd still be blind to the fact that the imam building the temple to terrorism by his own words and actions, has proven himself to be a supporter of radical islamic terrorism.

So, there's no need to consider that someone as highly placed that that politician doesn't know where the money is coming from.

So, you got any valid arguments to make?

...

....

Nope, didn't see any.
 
BDBoop said:
So - the thread you started saying Muslim is not a religion was hyperbolic?
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Then again, there is the fact that the word muslim refers to a follower of the religion of Islam. Hence "muslim" is not a religion.
 
Many proponents of the ground zero mosque claim that it is blocks away from ground zero. The truth is the Burlington Coat Factory building is in a larger sense part of Ground Zero. The landing gear from one of the jetliners hijacked on September 11, 2001 flew into the building that the Islamic supremacists want to tear down to construct their mosque. That makes this building part of the 9/11 attack site, and will make the mosque, in the eyes of the Islamic world, exactly what the Dome of the Rock is: a mosque of victory built right on the site of the Muslim defeat of the Infidels. The Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque, built on the site of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, are declarations of the superiority of Islam over Judaism, and its victory over Judaism. The mosque at the Burlington Coat Factory site, built on the site, not near it, but on it, because of that landing gear, of the Islamic jihad attack on September 11, 2001, will be seen as a declaration of the superiority of Islam over the United States, and its victory over the American economic machine. Why do you suppose they initially called this project the cordoba house? It was named this by the islamic supremacists who are attempting to build it after the mosque built in Cordoba Spain in AD 987. That mosque was built as a monument to the superiority of Islam over the conqured peoples of Spain.
 
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SgtRock said:
Many proponents of the ground zero mosque claim that it is blocks away from ground zero. The truth is the Burlington Coat Factory building is in a larger sense part of Ground Zero. The landing gear from one of the jetliners hijacked on September 11, 2001 flew into the building that the Islamic supremacists want to tear down to construct their mosque. That makes this building part of the 9/11 attack site, and will make the mosque, in the eyes of the Islamic world, exactly what the Dome of the Rock is: a mosque of victory built right on the site of the Muslim defeat of the Infidels. The Dome of the Rock and the Al-Aqsa Mosque, built on the site of the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, are declarations of the superiority of Islam over Judaism, and its victory over Judaism. The mosque at the Burlington Coat Factory site, built on the site, not near it, but on it, because of that landing gear, of the Islamic jihad attack on September 11, 2001, will be seen as a declaration of the superiority of Islam over the United States, and its victory over the American economic machine. Why do you suppose they initially called this project the cordoba house? It was named this by the islamic supremacists who are attempting to build it after the mosque built in Cordoba Spain in AD 987. That mosque was built as a monument to the superiority of Islam over the conqured peoples of Spain.
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I see no evidence to suggest its being built by Islamic supremeists with that intention, but rather average peace loving moderate guys like you and me. Stop being so hateful.
 
RightinNYC said:
No, it's two blocks away from ground zero.

45-47 park place ny, ny - Google Maps
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Yes, its a fact that the landing gear from one of the planes that flew into the WTC crashed into the Burlington coat factory building. This makes it part of ground zero.

btw, the BCF building is 600 feet from the location of the former WTC.
 
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kaya'08 said:
I see no evidence to suggest its being built by Islamic supremeists with that intention, but rather average peace loving moderate guys like you and me. Stop being so hateful.
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Speak for yourself. My country is at war, and I have no time for peace until the last islamic supremicist breathes his last breath.
 
Why are they set apart from participating in shaping world policies?

Again, I'm not saying that their exclusion was not justified. I am saying, however, that doing so may have led to the growth of Muslim extremism over the years and how radical Muslim extremist saw fit to project their anger at the U.S. on that faithful day.
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Granted, I didn't articulate my point of view very well in making the above statement. However, the point I was trying to make is that perhaps those of radical Islam believe that their voice hasn't been heard in helping to shape world policies. I admit I didn't do a good job of getting my point across. In any event, a snippet of the President's speech from Friday is below. For those who are interested, you can read his entire speech at www.whitehouse.gov.

Our Founders understood that the best way to honor the place of faith in the lives of our people was to protect their freedom to practice religion. In the Virginia Act of Establishing Religion Freedom, Thomas Jefferson wrote that “all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion.” The First Amendment of our Constitution established the freedom of religion as the law of the land. And that right has been upheld ever since.

Indeed, over the course of our history, religion has flourished within our borders precisely because Americans have had the right to worship as they choose -– including the right to believe in no religion at all. And it is a testament to the wisdom of our Founders that America remains deeply religious -– a nation where the ability of peoples of different faiths to coexist peacefully and with mutual respect for one another stands in stark contrast to the religious conflict that persists elsewhere around the globe.

Now, that's not to say that religion is without controversy. Recently, attention has been focused on the construction of mosques in certain communities -– particularly New York. Now, we must all recognize and respect the sensitivities surrounding the development of Lower Manhattan. The 9/11 attacks were a deeply traumatic event for our country. And the pain and the experience of suffering by those who lost loved ones is just unimaginable. So I understand the emotions that this issue engenders. And Ground Zero is, indeed, hallowed ground.

But let me be clear. As a citizen, and as President, I believe that Muslims have the same right to practice their religion as everyone else in this country. (Applause.) And that includes the right to build a place of worship and a community center on private property in Lower Manhattan, in accordance with local laws and ordinances. This is America. And our commitment to religious freedom must be unshakeable. The principle that people of all faiths are welcome in this country and that they will not be treated differently by their government is essential to who we are. The writ of the Founders must endure.
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SgtRock said:
Yes, its a fact that the landing gear from one of the planes that flew into the WTC crashed into the Burlington coat factory building. This makes it part of ground zero.
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How does that make it part of ground zero?

The debris from the site spread across all of lower manhattan - is the entire area part of ground zero?

btw, the BCF building is 600 feet from the location of the former WTC.
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That's two blocks.
 
Johnny DooWop said:
I knew someone was going to say that. Its hard to define "right" and "left" because here in the U.S. are two parties have spliced the two. The "right" is actually liberal when it comes to economics but socially conservative. The "left" is socially liberally but economically conservative. Hitler was a true conservative in the pre-industrial European sense of the word, which meant social control and a state owned economy.
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And he was economically conservative, was he not?
 
RightinNYC said:
How does that make it part of ground zero?

The debris from the site spread across all of lower manhattan - is the entire area part of ground zero?



That's two blocks.
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The entire area is hallowed ground and is no place for a victorious monument to the superiority of Islam over the USA.
 
SgtRock said:
The entire area is hallowed ground and is no place for a victorious monument to the superiority of Islam over the USA.
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And who decided that?

Do you live or work in lower manhattan?
 
SgtRock said:
Yes, its a fact that the landing gear from one of the planes that flew into the WTC crashed into the Burlington coat factory building. This makes it part of ground zero.

btw, the BCF building is 600 feet from the location of the former WTC.
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I think some dust also settled, from the WTC, a few miles away and practically all over the city.

It should now all be part of Ground Zero. :roll:
 
Harry Guerrilla said:
I think some dust also settled, from the WTC, a few miles away and practically all over the city.

It should now all be part of Ground Zero. :roll:
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I would imagine some of the dust and smoke made it into the jet stream ... hmmm ...
 
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