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Thread: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by chevydriver1123 View Post
    Your point?
    My point is that Rockwell at times can say some things in which I agree with, and at other times badly misses the mark. Much like most libertarians.


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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not sure anyoneis supporting Islam. Your question really sidesteps the real issue. Christianity has suffered much of the same criticism, and yet I wouldn't deny a church being built.

    So far, I see many are just plain missing the point, and trying to continually make arguments for what is not said.

    Look, you claim to have watched Beck speak on this, then you would know fully well that Beck, as well as many of those in here are not arguing that the church can not be built, that these people are not within their rights to build it. They are. But the real question is, always has been, and should continue to be, should they?

    Constantly we hear in this country how Christianity are full of nutjobs, and fights constantly go on up to and including trying to remove the reference to God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Now all of the sudden those same individuals that are constantly saying that Christian symbols, and prayer should be kept from the public square, are seriously arguing for a Mosque of Conquest to be built even though it offends the majority of people there. You can't say 'merry Christmas' according to these people because someone may be offended by hearing the word "Christ" but by all means defend the gosh, and purely political statement of placing this Mosque 600 feet from ground zero, oh and let an Imam that labels America as an accessory to that crime be the pastor there. Those in defense of this are duplicitous in nature.

    To be crystal clear, NO ONE IS SAYING THAT THEY DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO BUILD!!!!!! BUT SHOULD THEY?


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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Constantly we hear in this country how Christianity are full of nutjobs, and fights constantly go on up to and including trying to remove the reference to God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Now all of the sudden those same individuals that are constantly saying that Christian symbols, and prayer should be kept from the public square, are seriously arguing for a Mosque of Conquest to be built even though it offends the majority of people there. You can't say 'merry Christmas' according to these people because someone may be offended by hearing the word "Christ" but by all means defend the gosh, and purely political statement of placing this Mosque 600 feet from ground zero, oh and let an Imam that labels America as an accessory to that crime be the pastor there. Those in defense of this are duplicitous in nature.
    Who here is taking such a position?

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    So far, I see many are just plain missing the point, and trying to continually make arguments for what is not said.

    Look, you claim to have watched Beck speak on this, then you would know fully well that Beck, as well as many of those in here are not arguing that the church can not be built, that these people are not within their rights to build it. They are. But the real question is, always has been, and should continue to be, should they?

    Constantly we hear in this country how Christianity are full of nutjobs, and fights constantly go on up to and including trying to remove the reference to God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Now all of the sudden those same individuals that are constantly saying that Christian symbols, and prayer should be kept from the public square, are seriously arguing for a Mosque of Conquest to be built even though it offends the majority of people there. You can't say 'merry Christmas' according to these people because someone may be offended by hearing the word "Christ" but by all means defend the gosh, and purely political statement of placing this Mosque 600 feet from ground zero, oh and let an Imam that labels America as an accessory to that crime be the pastor there. Those in defense of this are duplicitous in nature.

    To be crystal clear, NO ONE IS SAYING THAT THEY DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO BUILD!!!!!! BUT SHOULD THEY?


    j-mac
    Odd you should start by claiming peopelare arguing against something not argued, and then you do exactly what you claim others are doing. Never have I argued that Christianity is full of nutjobs. And as the pledge was not written with God in it, it would be more accurate to suggest that you side argues it should be added, but again, not anything to do with me.

    In the issue of shold, that has to be discussed in factual terms and understandings. The Iman is not a terrorist or even a proven radical. It is not even being built at ground zero. There is really no controvesy here of any merit at all, but more a wild overreaction by some, a very few some.

    So, stay away from your strawmen arguments and come back to the factual argument.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Constantly we hear in this country how Christianity are full of nutjobs,
    But they are. I'm not saying they're gonna blow something up...not yet (those Jesus Camp folk though...who the hell knows); but you guys got some serious crazies. The libertarian party ain't got anything on Christian crazies. Crazies in all groups though.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    and fights constantly go on up to and including trying to remove the reference to God in the Pledge of Allegiance.
    It was inserted in the 50's for propaganda reasoning. Though I don't really care if it's there. I think the whole of the Pledge is propaganda.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Now all of the sudden those same individuals that are constantly saying that Christian symbols, and prayer should be kept from the public square,
    I have always argued that public displays of religion are fine. I even argue that it's ok to discriminate, a community need not put up symbols of all religions if they don't want. I think that is still true as well. If the community wants to put a manger scene by the courthouse to celebrate Christmas and nothing more, that's their right to do so. I even think displays of the 10 Commandments are ok at court houses. So long as the court rules by the laws of man and not the laws of gods, no rights are violated.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    are seriously arguing for a Mosque of Conquest to be built even though it offends the majority of people there.
    And it should be allowed to be build even if it offends the majority of the people there. Ain't no right against being offended.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You can't say 'merry Christmas' according to these people because someone may be offended by hearing the word "Christ" but by all means defend the gosh, and purely political statement of placing this Mosque 600 feet from ground zero, oh and let an Imam that labels America as an accessory to that crime be the pastor there. Those in defense of this are duplicitous in nature.
    I think that this is a bit of an overstatement. There may be some who are offended by "merry Christmas", but A) it's their problem and B) You don't have to stop. Ain't nothing illegal.

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    To be crystal clear, NO ONE IS SAYING THAT THEY DON'T HAVE A RIGHT TO BUILD!!!!!! BUT SHOULD THEY?
    Of course they shouldn't. They should be more respectful, but they don't have to be. And because I can't do anything about it, it's not worth getting my undies in a twist over it. Just ignore it. It's a free country.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Odd you should start by claiming peopelare arguing against something not argued, and then you do exactly what you claim others are doing. Never have I argued that Christianity is full of nutjobs. And as the pledge was not written with God in it, it would be more accurate to suggest that you side argues it should be added, but again, not anything to do with me.

    In the issue of shold, that has to be discussed in factual terms and understandings. The Iman is not a terrorist or even a proven radical. It is not even being built at ground zero. There is really no controvesy here of any merit at all, but more a wild overreaction by some, a very few some.

    So, stay away from your strawmen arguments and come back to the factual argument.

    Not so odd Joe that you would obfuscate the argument in order to attack me for even posing the question.

    The issue I take is that this Imam is indeed radical. Unless ofcourse you agree that American law needs to become Shria compliant.


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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Not so odd Joe that you would obfuscate the argument in order to attack me for even posing the question.

    The issue I take is that this Imam is indeed radical. Unless ofcourse you agree that American law needs to become Shria compliant.


    j-mac
    No, he has not proposed that. he's having a dicussion concerning how we vote on laws. How we support or object to laws. Like the christian who objects to homosexual rights because he believes homosexuality is a sin, so to does the Muslim. Again, like the AF, you misread him.

    But it was you who threw out tat strawman argument and not me. If you don't want to be called on it, don't throw such silliness out there.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    The issue I take is that this Imam is indeed radical. Unless ofcourse you agree that American law needs to become Shria compliant.


    j-mac
    Could you please provide a direct quote in which the Imam said America should use Sharia law. I'd love to see it.

    Jet-Mac.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Of course they shouldn't. They should be more respectful, but they don't have to be. And because I can't do anything about it, it's not worth getting my undies in a twist over it. Just ignore it. It's a free country.
    I will agree with you this far, whether they should or not is a useless argument. It is a free country, and as you say, there is protection from being offended.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    But they are. I'm not saying they're gonna blow something up...not yet (those Jesus Camp folk though...who the hell knows); but you guys got some serious crazies. The libertarian party ain't got anything on Christian crazies. Crazies in all groups though.
    Lyndon La Rouche is a moderate isn't he? As well as Chomsky?


    It was inserted in the 50's for propaganda reasoning. Though I don't really care if it's there. I think the whole of the Pledge is propaganda.
    Propaganda? In what way? As to the words "Under God":

    Louis A. Bowman (1872-1959) was the first to initiate the addition of "under God" to the Pledge. The National Society of the Daughters of the American Revolution gave him an Award of Merit as the originator of this idea.[8][9] He spent his adult life in the Chicago area and was Chaplain of the Illinois Society of the Sons of the American Revolution. At a meeting on February 12, 1948,[citation needed] Lincoln's Birthday, he led the Society in swearing the Pledge with two words added, "under God." He stated that the words came from Lincoln's Gettysburg Address. Though not all manuscript versions of the Gettysburg Address contain the words "under God", all the reporters' transcripts of the speech as delivered do, as perhaps Lincoln may have deviated from his prepared text and inserted the phrase when he said "that the nation shall, under God, have a new birth of freedom." Bowman repeated his revised version of the Pledge at other meetings.[8]

    Pledge of Allegiance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    So Lincoln was wrong?


    I have always argued that public displays of religion are fine. I even argue that it's ok to discriminate, a community need not put up symbols of all religions if they don't want. I think that is still true as well. If the community wants to put a manger scene by the courthouse to celebrate Christmas and nothing more, that's their right to do so. I even think displays of the 10 Commandments are ok at court houses. So long as the court rules by the laws of man and not the laws of gods, no rights are violated.
    Fine, we agree on this point.


    And it should be allowed to be build even if it offends the majority of the people there. Ain't no right against being offended.
    But surely not the 'concerned outreach' the Imam Rauf speaks of is it?


    I think that this is a bit of an overstatement. There may be some who are offended by "merry Christmas", but A) it's their problem and B) You don't have to stop. Ain't nothing illegal.
    Do you deny that fights to make it so have gone on?


    Of course they shouldn't. They should be more respectful, but they don't have to be. And because I can't do anything about it, it's not worth getting my undies in a twist over it. Just ignore it. It's a free country.
    So you say.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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