Page 83 of 104 FirstFirst ... 3373818283848593 ... LastLast
Results 821 to 830 of 1032

Thread: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

  1. #821
    Voluntary Resignation

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    11-30-10 @ 05:20 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,059

    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I agree with your Bundeswehr example. But I fail to see the analogy to a mosque near ground zero. Many Muslims died in the Twin Towers on 9/11 too, and Islam itself has nothing to do with al-Qaida in general. It would be like saying that building a Christian church near a former death camp would be tasteless, because most Nazi butcherers were members of Christian churches. The connection is so vague it simply doesn't make sense.
    It's not a perfect example, I'll admit. I'll have to think about some other way to put it.

    Rest assured though that my opposition to the location of the mosque doesn't come from or cause me to want to cause harm to the average Muslim. Far from it.

  2. #822
    User opinion8tdwench's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Last Seen
    09-18-10 @ 12:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    100

    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    I think the problem here is very much a definite misunderstanding in polls and numbers. Of those who say they dont want the mosque there, how many are willing to agree to banning them from doing it? I am sure it is some, but will that drop the numbers down a bit? I think it is in poor taste..I think it is a bit uncaring, and very insensitive to put the mosque there. HOWEVER, as the old saying goes "I may disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death your right to say it."
    I do have a few questions though.
    . Had the bombers been fundamentalist crazy radical Christians, would we have an issue with a big church there? Had they been Irish radicals, would we close down every Irish pub in a 1 mile radius and cancel the St. Patrick's day parade? Just how far can we go with this?
    This mosque is 2 blocks away from ground zero, and cannot even be seen from there. Just how far away is far enough? 3 blocks? 4 blocks? 2 miles? 2000 miles? Where do we draw the line?
    If you can't bite, don't growl.

  3. #823
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.
    Last Seen
    09-01-10 @ 05:23 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,324

    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    It's interesting that you of all people would claim that logic is on the side of xenophobia and bigoted hatred. But then, not really surprising, considering this comes from you.
    Straw man again.

  4. #824
    Sage
    German guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 06:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    5,187

    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    Understood, now let's build a German Cultural center next to Aushwitz. Or an Orthodox Cathedral in the town of Srebrenica. If you think that would be completely inappropriate, offensive, and in bad taste then you must be a bigot in line with the Nazi's ready to goosestep people into the ovens.
    Very different situations.

    And yes, people who believe "Islam = terrorism" like you have eqloquently demonstrated, are indeed "in line with the Nazis ready to goosestep people into the ovens". You may all disagree, but I indeed believe that once you have embraced this stereotyping hatred and bigotry, 90% of the way into the ovens has been taken already. It was not different in Germany in the 1930s and 40s.

    Furthermore; this is not some kumbaya singing little group, the head of this group blames the U.S. for 9-11, says OBL was made in the USA, wants a Sharia compliant US, and refuses to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization.

    The clear intent of this Mosque is one of incitement, those claiming otherwise stating that it is really an attempt to reach out to the community are laughable. If that were the case and this was really an attempt to build bridges between Muslims and non-Muslims why didn't they set aside space for a synagogue and a church? Why did they decide to build a Mosque rather than a memorial dedicated to the victims of 9-11? The latter would have actually engendered feelings of goodwill from non-Muslims towards Muslims; whereas, this Mosque is causing nothing but resentment which ofcourse is its true motivation in the first place IE to give the proverbial **** you to the American people and to do a little victory jig on the site of their most successful attack.
    Oh yeah, now the conspiracy theories. Of course, if you are afraid of Muslims in general, alltogether and alike, you could see it this way, of course ...

    Bull****ing ****, you can not control your ethnicity you can control your ideology. The fact of the matter is that the only accepted view held within all five sects of mainstream Islam is that apostasy, adultery, homosexuality and/or premarital sex is that the penalties for these non-crimes are capital and/or corporal punishment.
    Yeah, among the people who call themselves Muslims, there are quite a few backward idiots (maybe even more than among Christians). But only the fewest of them support terrorism. And you always got quite a few Muslims who don't take their religion very seriously. You should talk with Muslims once.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  5. #825
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.
    Last Seen
    09-01-10 @ 05:23 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,324

    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I agree with your Bundeswehr example. But I fail to see the analogy to a mosque near ground zero. Many Muslims died in the Twin Towers on 9/11 too, and Islam itself has nothing to do with al-Qaida in general.
    Then let's build a German Cultural center at Aushwitz as many Germans died there as well. If this was about reaching out and memorializing the victims of 9-11 then why build a Mosque? Why not do something which would actually engender goodwill (like I don't know something crazy like a...) memorial to the victims of 9-11?


    It would be like saying that building a Christian church near a former death camp would be tasteless, because most Nazi butcherers were members of Christian churches. The connection is so vague it simply doesn't make sense.
    Actually a Convent of nuns formally located on the grounds of Aushwitz were ordered out by the Catholic church. And yes building Orthodox Cathedral in the town of Srebrenica would be completely inappropriate.
    Last edited by Agent Ferris; 08-16-10 at 07:29 PM.

  6. #826
    Sage
    German guy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Last Seen
    08-24-17 @ 06:57 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    5,187

    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Coronado View Post
    It's not a perfect example, I'll admit. I'll have to think about some other way to put it.

    Rest assured though that my opposition to the location of the mosque doesn't come from or cause me to want to cause harm to the average Muslim. Far from it.
    I am glad you say that. And maybe I indeed overreact. But the problem is, I have encountered so much stereotyping xenophobia against Muslims so far, that I have a hard time believing that not many of these 68% have a general hate problem. Not saying you aren't an exception, but the general situation is pretty bad. It seems to be en vogue these days to single out scapegoats and to stereotype foreigners once again. And that worries me.

    So thanks for your calm contribution. I appreciate it.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  7. #827
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Past the edge of the universe, through the singularity, and out the other side.
    Last Seen
    09-01-10 @ 05:23 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,324

    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    Very different situations.
    Really how so?

    And yes, people who believe "Islam = terrorism" like you have eqloquently demonstrated, are indeed "in line with the Nazis ready to goosestep people into the ovens". You may all disagree, but I indeed believe that once you have embraced this stereotyping hatred and bigotry, 90% of the way into the ovens has been taken already. It was not different in Germany in the 1930s and 40s.
    No I have not stated that Islam = terrorism, but I have stated that mainstream Islam = oppressive ideology, not because I'm a bigot but because it's a ****ing fact.


    Oh yeah, now the conspiracy theories. Of course, if you are afraid of Muslims in general, alltogether and alike, you could see it this way, of course ...
    It's not a conspiracy theory it's a fact, the guy spearheading this Mosque blamed the U.S. for 9-11 and said that OBL was made in the USA less than 3 weeks after the 9-11 attacks, he likewise wants a Sharia compliant U.S., and refuses to condemn Hamas as a terrorist organization.

    The claims that this is an act of cultural outreach and not an act of provocation simply do not hold water, because if that were the case then why build a Mosque rather than a memorial to the victims of 9-11? If this was about cultural outreach then why are no other prayer services other than Islamic ones being held at this "community center"?


    Yeah, among the people who call themselves Muslims, there are quite a few backward idiots (maybe even more than among Christians). But only the fewest of them support terrorism. And you always got quite a few Muslims who don't take their religion very seriously. You should talk with Muslims once.
    That says absolutely nothing about the ideology any more than a pro-choice Cathlic says about the Catholic Church's stance on abortion, and I seriously doubt that Mosque building Imam's don't take their religion very seriously.

  8. #828
    Voluntary Resignation

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Last Seen
    11-30-10 @ 05:20 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,059

    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    I am glad you say that. And maybe I indeed overreact. But the problem is, I have encountered so much stereotyping xenophobia against Muslims so far, that I have a hard time believing that not many of these 68% have a general hate problem. Not saying you aren't an exception, but the general situation is pretty bad. It seems to be en vogue these days to single out scapegoats and to stereotype foreigners once again. And that worries me.

    So thanks for your calm contribution. I appreciate it.
    Where exactly have you encountered this stereotyping? I don't think it is any more common here than anywhere else.

  9. #829
    Sage
    Caine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-05-17 @ 01:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,336

    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Holy Hell......
    I sleep for 8 hours and I can't even catch up without getting bored of the same comments back and forth between the same people.....

    I don't understand how people can continue to go on forever trying to get the last word.

    This thread =

    Stick a fork in it... its done.
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  10. #830
    Sage
    Navy Pride's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Pacific NW
    Last Seen
    05-07-15 @ 02:01 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    39,883

    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    To Conservatives Hussein Obama is the gift that keeps on giving.........
    "God Bless Our Troops in Harms Way."

Page 83 of 104 FirstFirst ... 3373818283848593 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •