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Thread: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    So according to a new poll, 68% of Americans oppose this mosque. Apparently, two thirds of all Americans hold an entire religion and all their followers hostage for the deeds of a few terrorists.

    Anybody who ever wondered how something like the Holocaust could happen, or believed that it could only happen in Germany, or that it could never again happen today, should take a look at these poll numbers and take a deep breath before answering.

    Until then, let's read again the Protocols of the Elders of Islam.

    I think it would be nice if the backers of this mosque chose a different site.
    I don't hold all Islam responsible for the deeds of a few terrorists.
    I'm not planning on firebombing any mosques.

    I suspect that the bulk of people who "oppose" the mosque would agree with me on all three counts.
    People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    So according to a new poll, 68% of Americans oppose this mosque. Apparently, two thirds of all Americans hold an entire religion and all their followers hostage for the deeds of a few terrorists.

    Anybody who ever wondered how something like the Holocaust could happen, or believed that it could only happen in Germany, or that it could never again happen today, should take a look at these poll numbers and take a deep breath before answering.

    Until then, let's read again the Protocols of the Elders of Islam.
    I'd say that opposing a Mosque and gassing millions of people are quite a ways away from each other. To try and equate the two in any way is beyond absurd.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    So according to a new poll, 68% of Americans oppose this mosque. Apparently, two thirds of all Americans hold an entire religion and all their followers hostage for the deeds of a few terrorists.
    That's one hell of a leap. What exactly was the question that was asked?

    I oppose the building of the mosque on that site, but I value the rights protected by our First Amendment much more than I oppose the mosque.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    As I see it, there are 68% of Americans who can't make a difference between terrorist criminal monsters and the religion of Islam. There is no point in debating that: Either you think the entire religion has to be held responsible for 9/11, or you have no problem with a mosque there. There is no grey area.

    And don't attack a strawman. Nowhere did I equate gassing millions of people with opposition to building a mosque.

    But the xenophobic, bigoted climate against an entire religion is definitely comparable. You could easily get the anti Muslim croud for whom "Islam = terrorism" to support a "final solution of the Muslim question", there is not the slightest doubt about it. Just read what these people write on forums like this one. Not even mentioning what you could hear on American streets in the first few months and years after 9/11.
    Last edited by German guy; 08-16-10 at 06:52 PM.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I guess only when liberal feelings are at stake, but never when the families of the murdered 9/11 victims come into play....

    Nice.


    j-mac
    I would say it shouldn't be the standard for either. The law shoudl be the standard, but let's be honest, we're talking about feelings versus logic. Should emotion rule the day? Or should law and facts rule? It's really an important quewstion.

    BTW, I think it is quite possible families are bieng misrepresented by your side on this. I'm sure some may well FEEL anything you claim, but others are not so moved. Logically, it makes little sense for them to have any feelings on this as these people are not the people who perpetrated the attack. It would be like blaming Christians for the Klan. Not logical.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    As I see it, there are 68% of Americans who can't make a difference between terrorist criminal monsters and the religion of Islam. There is no point in debating that: Either you think the entire religion has to be held responsible for 9/11, or you have no problem with a mosque there. There is no grey area.

    And don't attack a strawman. Nowhere did I equate gassing millions of people with opposition to building a mosque.

    But the xenophobic, bigoted climate against an entire religion is definitely comparable. You could easily get the anti Muslim croud for whom "Islam = terrorism" to support a "final solution of the Muslim question", there is not the slightest doubt about it. Just read what these people write on forums like this one. Not even mentioning what you could hear on American streets in the first few months and years after 9/11.
    Well, I feel we've made tremendous advancements socially since WWII and the Japanese internment camps. I think, for the most part, you are overreacting. Islam is the 2nd largest religion in the world. These anti-Muslim people have quite a battle ahead of them if they seriously think they are going to rid the Earth of that religion. The odds aren't exactly in their favor.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by German guy View Post
    As I see it, there are 68% of Americans who can't make a difference between terrorist criminal monsters and the religion of Islam. There is no point in debating that: Either you think the entire religion has to be held responsible for 9/11, or you have no problem with a mosque there. There is no grey area.
    You see it wrong, then. Several of us showed where one can be against the placement of this mosque, yet not against Islam.

    If you can't understand that, it really serves no purpose in carrying on a dialogue with you.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Logically, it makes little sense for them to have any feelings on this as these people are not the people who perpetrated the attack. It would be like blaming Christians for the Klan. Not logical.
    Timothy McVeigh was a white Christian. Yet there are no 68% claiming that means all white Christians are terrorists, or supporting the obviously ridiculous claim that building a Christian church there would be tasteless. Guess why that is? Bonus points for anybody who can point to rampant xenophobia and stereotyping hatred.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    Actually, Harry Reid just came out against the mosque, too.

    The Plum Line - Breaking: Reid calls for mosque to be built "someplace else"
    That is to be expected, since Harry Reid is a douche bag.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Patrick View Post
    Well, I feel we've made tremendous advancements socially since WWII and the Japanese internment camps. I think, for the most part, you are overreacting. Islam is the 2nd largest religion in the world. These anti-Muslim people have quite a battle ahead of them if they seriously think they are going to rid the Earth of that religion. The odds aren't exactly in their favor.
    You are right, I don't think another Holocaust is near, this time one against Muslims. But that's not because the people are anymore tolerant or wise today than they were back then in Germany, or because people have learnt from history. These polls make this more than obvious.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

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