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President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

Obama did a moral thing; put the values of the constitution and the founding father first, for once, and upheld America's title as the land of the free and brave.

that's pretty, but the people with whom he's trying to improve relations are PISSED

to lead you must first UNDERSTAND the led

to start, you must LISTEN to em (especially when they're screaming at you)

obama is obtuse
 
Sgt Rock, dont bother fighting for your country. You should not be allowed the title of an American if you cannot even support its basic values. Your political views is more in alignment with the likes of the very extremists and right wingers who seek to destroy the very foundations that make your country; religious and political freedom...the very foundations you yourself wish to remove from existence.

I have become concerned with your increasing islamaphobia and many fellow posters agree. I hope you find your way.
 
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Its a place of worship, not a terrorist headquarters. If a Christian started shooting random people and they built a memorial there, very few people would object a church being built down the street. (Don't take this the wrong way, I'm protestant)

I don't have any details yet, but just heard about a church that was destroyed on 9/11. It seems they are running into all kinds of red tape. All they want to do is re-build their church where it was.
Our Gov. is bending over backwards to make sure a mosque is built. They have gone as far as tax payer funding of sending the Imam to the ME for outreach and fund raising.
If the gov. got involved and used tax payer money to help rebuild a church the left would be out their screaming about the seperation of church and state.
 
Sgt Rock, dont bother fighting for your country. You should not be allowed the title of an American if you cannot even support its basic values. Your political views is more in alignment with the likes of the very extremists and right wingers who seek to destroy the very foundations that make your country; religious and political freedom...thQe very foundations you yourself wish to remove from existence.

I have become concerned with your increasing islamaphobia and many fellow posters agree. I hope you find your way.

If SgtRock is judged fit for duty, I think he's perfect for the job.

America isn't just about its ideals. It's about the fact that you can hate everything this country stands for, and yet still be a citizen in good standing if you but keep the law.
 
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that's pretty, but the people with whom he's trying to improve relations are PISSED

to lead you must first UNDERSTAND the led

to start, you must LISTEN to em (especially when they're screaming at you)

obama is obtuse

You dont make sense, i dont think i want to understand you, but just to get it right, are you advocating the suppression of religion?
 
The problem is that he's not just aiming for diplomacy, but also for being an agent of social change.

that's not working, either

When social change is your priority, and simply going about your business stirs up the haters, you're pretty much obligated to keep doing it.

I never said anybody did. I said the idiocy of others isn't his problem.

Well, the appropriate response to hate and fear is not capitulation

maybe nothing is working because he has such a low opinion of the people with whom he's trying to improve relations

how do you improve relations with someone you fundamentally disrespect, why bother?
 
If SgtRock is judged fit for duty, I think he's perfect for the job.

America isn't just about its ideals. It's about the fact that you can hate everything this country stands for, and yet still be a citizen in good standing if you but keep the law.

That's very true. But know that his increasing xenophobic sentiment is unacceptable. If he hates the values of the country, don't fight for it.
 
that's not working, either

It's the sort of thing that happens overnight.

how do you improve relations with someone you fundamentally disrespect, why bother?

Has he said he fundamentally disrespects the people of New York? It seems to me that his approach has been that they can dislike what he's doing all they want, but he's still doing it. That's not disrespectful.
 
"ignoramuses," "haters," "idiocy," "ignorance..."

contempt, anyone?

derision?
 
American history is so rife with xenophobia that one could argue it's a very American value.

Every nation's past is filled with blood.
Its not Turkish or American values to commit genocide. Its what we have become that dictates our values. Your constitution reflects these values, even IF government has decided to ignore it. That argument isn't legit.
 
that's pretty, but the people with whom he's trying to improve relations are PISSED

to lead you must first UNDERSTAND the led

to start, you must LISTEN to em (especially when they're screaming at you)

obama is obtuse

I guess there should be no churches built in downtown Atlanta because of the Centennial Olympic Bombing that was done by a right-wing Christian terrorist?
 
Every nation's past is filled with blood.

I'm talking about attitude, not blood, and it's in our very recent past as well. Hell, it's in our present. My argument is that it's been present enough for long enough that it could be considered fundamental to how we work as a nation.

Its not Turkish or American values to commit genocide. Its what we have become that dictates our values. Your constitution reflects these values, even IF government has decided to ignore it. That argument isn't legit.

Actually, the Constitution doesn't speak on the subject of xenophobia, unless I missed an Article...
 
Objective Voice says
Moreover, as another poster has mentioned plans were in the works to build this mosque at this particular site long before 9/11 occurred

_____________________________________________________________________________________________
I can't find this to be true.
What I found is that it was purchased from a utility co. in 2006.
 
I'm talking about attitude, not blood, and it's in our very recent past as well. Hell, it's in our present. My argument is that it's been present enough for long enough that it could be considered fundamental to how we work as a nation.

What part of this recent history suggests Xenophobia is how your nation works?

Actually, the Constitution doesn't speak on the subject of xenophobia, unless I missed an Article...

The constitution emphasizes the important of private property and the right to religious freedom, which means by its very nature it is preaching the opposite of xenophobia; rather the fundamental importance of accepting and coexisting, the very mechanics that has created a successful cosmopolitan, and through this diverse nature, a strong American society.
 
That's calling a spade a spade. You don't respect someone by lying to their face about their bad behavior.

sure

"i'm here to improve relations with you, you idiot"

LOL!
 
I guess there should be no churches built in downtown Atlanta because of the Centennial Olympic Bombing that was done by a right-wing Christian terrorist?

no skin off my teeth

ask the folks in atlanta
 
No one ever said you shouldn't oppose the mosque.



However it is 2 blocks away, not exactly as some have suggested and described it as "towering over ground zero" or "at the site". That's a bit dramatic.

I just heard that the coat factory was actually damged on 9/11. That's pretty close in my opinion.
 
What part of this recent history suggests Xenophobia is how your nation works?

Great examples include the treatment received by Irish, Itallian, and many other immigrants to this country.

The constitution emphasizes the important of private property and the right to religious freedom, which means by its very nature it is preaching the opposite of xenophobia; rather the fundamental importance of accepting and coexisting, the very mechanics that has created a successful cosmopolitan, and through this diverse nature, a strong American society.

That doesn't mean it preaches against xenophobia or preaches its opposite, that means it documents our rights. The Constitution doesn't actually say anything about acceptance.
 
No, more like, "I'm doing this to improve relations with non-Muslims, and anybody who says I picked the wrong location just because they associate Islam with 9/11 is an idiot."

LOL!

well, that'll certainly get em to hear you
 
I wish I could say thanks more than once. This was so very well written.

I've kept my mouth shut on this issue because I wanted to take the time to really think it through and reconcile how I feel about both sides of the issue at stake here: upholding one of our founding principles of religious tolerence versus showing compassion for those who died at the hands of religious extremist who happened to be of the Islamic faith subverted as they may have been.

If you say you honestly believe in the Constitution and the American way of life, you have to allow this Mosque to be built right where the ground has been broken.

Freedom of religion was one of the reasons our Founding Fathers left the British Crown. They wanted to be free of religious prosecution. In many ways, the stain of the Salom Witch Hunts remain a stain on this country's early history. Other than the occasional cult that have popped up here and there, this country has upheld the right of the individual to practise whatever religion he/she wants as long as such doesn't infring on the basic rights of others. Furthermore, because this country is a nation of laws, we've afforded every entity the right to do whatever they want to do as long as they follow the laws in place. By all accounts, the owners of the land where this mosque is to be built has followed the law to the letter. Moreover, as another poster has mentioned plans were in the works to build this mosque at this particular site long before 9/11 occurred. As such, how can the owner be denied his right to build a place of worship wherever he wants as long as he follows the city building and zoning codes?

The way I see it, this isn't a Liberal or Conservative thing. This is an American values things. To disallow the building of this mosque would send a message to those who wished to do this country harm on September 11, 2001, that they've won! They've destroyed the very Constitutional rights we've fought so hard to uphold. As an American can you live with the alternative? Can you live with the hypocrisy that would clearly be on display for the world to see and the message many around the world would take from this, the very nation that talks big on religious freedom and equality and democracy for all? Can you see how wrong it would be not to allow this mosque to be built?

I fully understand how those who are opposed to its construction truly feel, but as my wife said to me while we were discussing this very issue, "9/11 was an event; tragic as it was allowing the mosque to be built will not bring back those whose lives have been lost". Clearly, it won't take away the sting the "slap in the face" at building this Islamic place of worship so close to where the Twin Towers once stood appears to be making, but to disallow its construction gives power to radical Islam and quickens their resolve. The way I see it, WE take away their power by reaffirming to the Muslim world that we are not at war with Islam and that no matter how hard they try to tear us apart and demonstrate that we are a nation divided full of religious hyporcrits, we will never yeild to their inhumanity and subversion of our basic freedoms.
 
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