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Thread: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    nonsense, to oppose this project all one needs do is believe that it is NOT improving relations, which it's not

    look around

    what is the purpose for building this mosque, again?
    Brilliant! A project that has not even really started is not getting the desired results yet, so they should cancel it. That is pure brilliance. I can see like the Manhattan Project: "well, we have not started yet, but we have not split the atom yet, so let's just cancel".
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by kaya'08 View Post
    What exactly are you saying?
    I am saying that Turkey is in flux right now, searching for their identity amidst a population that is 99% Muslim. So your calls for tolerance and moderation have to be taken with that knowledge.

    Even political censorship, which in itself is not unheard of in Turkey, is now practiced in the name of religious modesty. Last week, for example, the ministry of education set off a storm of anger with its regulation decreeing that images of the well-known Delacroix painting "Liberty Leading the People" be removed from schoolbooks. The reason: the bare breasts of the standard-bearer in the depiction of France's 1830 July Revolution.
    Islamic bathing costumes are becoming more popular in Turkey these days.
    Recently, the ministry of education itself was outraged over the fact that several publishing companies had, on their own initiative, rewritten children's books that the ministry had recommended for classroom use. In the edited versions, Pinocchio, Heidi and Tom Sawyer live in an Islamic world where inhabitants wish each other a "blessed morning" or ask for food "in Allah's name." Aramis, one of the Three Musketeers, even converts to Islam.

    Turkey in Transition: Less Europe, More Islam - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International
    . . . Turkey's increasing disinterest in the European Union combined with its efforts to re-establish its influence in Turkic countries of Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan and its outreaches to Russian [sic], Syria and Iran are cause for concern.

    . . . the shift by Tayyip Recep Erdogan, Turkey's leader, from West to East was obvious, because Turkey announced [some months ago] it was cutting Israel out of annual military exercises involving NATO forces while it sought out military exercises with Syria.

    As for Turkey’s statements, Shoebat told WND, “Erdogan is saying 1.5 billion Muslims are waiting for the Turkish government to arise. This is pretty scary. Turkey rules only 70 million people so why are they talking about 1.5 billion Muslims?”

    Is Turkey the Next Big Islamic Threat?
    You tell me?


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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Brilliant! A project that has not even really started is not getting the desired results yet, so they should cancel it. That is pure brilliance. I can see like the Manhattan Project: "well, we have not started yet, but we have not split the atom yet, so let's just cancel".
    Pretty poor anology Red. It hasn't started yet which is the right time to have this debate, rather than saying nothing until it is built then arguing against it.

    j-mac
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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post

    Are you conceding that this mosque is a possible 'Base' of operation for the Islamic Jihad?

    j-mac
    My goodness. Where do people lead to this conclusion.

    More pointedly, throughout Islam's history, whenever a region was conquered, one of the first signs of consolidation was/is the erection of a mosque atop the sacred sites of the vanquished: the pagan Ka'ba temple in Arabia was converted into Islam's holiest site, the mosque of Mecca; the al-Aqsa mosque, Islam's third holiest site, was built atop Solomon's temple in Jerusalem; the Umayyad mosque was built atop the Church of St. John the Baptist; and the Hagia Sophia was converted into a mosque upon the conquest of Constantinople.
    I suppose islam has conquered the Burlington Coat Factory and will convert it into a giant monument of 2 planes hitting the twin towers!
    I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Brilliant! A project that has not even really started is not getting the desired results yet, so they should cancel it. That is pure brilliance. I can see like the Manhattan Project: "well, we have not started yet, but we have not split the atom yet, so let's just cancel".
    the mosque and the a-bomb

    the baptists and the kkk, noted

    LOL!

    YouTube - Twilight Zone intro.

    no, machiavelli, since mr rauf is not "yet" achieving his desired results of "improving relations," he should just CRAM his friendship down the throats of his neighbors, willing or not

    just like obamacare

    mr rauf, if you really want to improve relations, you're simply gonna have to move your church

    it's your move, mr rauf

    america's watching (ask hall in 19, owens in 23, bishop in 1, mcmahon in unlucky 13...)
    Last edited by The Prof; 08-16-10 at 11:51 AM.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No one has said that they don't, but public pressure to do the right thing can often bring about change in location for a great many things.
    As I've said in this thread before, they could probably sell the land for a tidy profit and build a better and bigger community centre with a mosque inside it elsewhere if it really offends you that much.

    I prefer to live in the here and now, back then is of no concern to what is happening today, other than to prove you wrong in your assertion.
    The only assertions being made in this thread and in others is that all Islam means terror. This is not correct.

    I never said that he absolutely did. I said it was possible, destroying yet another of your assertions.
    I made no assertion, I posed a question of true or false? Which I see now is false. Cheers!

    Again, no one has said that "ALL" muslims bear responsibility for what happened on 9/11, in fact I went to lengths to show that there are plenty of mosques in NYC and the US proving that fact.
    If you can stop one. You can stop one again... and again... and again.

    You have nothing, try again. This time educate yourself on the history and possible motives of this mosque before posting.
    and I suggest you take your fear and emotional arguments out of the equation as well.

    This mosque may be a bad idea. I never said it wasn't. But the fact of the matter is, it's not going to "Tower Over Ground Zero"

    If you take away their rights, you rienforce the cycle of fear between you, you prove that you are everything the radicals said you would be. You have to do what you must to end that cycle, or it will destroy you.

    Are you conceding that this mosque is a possible 'Base' of operation for the Islamic Jihad?

    j-mac


    Jesus christ. Is there no sanity left in this world?

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I am saying that Turkey is in flux right now, searching for their identity amidst a population that is 99% Muslim. So your calls for tolerance and moderation have to be taken with that knowledge.
    Im pretty sure i said "erdogans attempts to pervert it aside".

    Secularism has been doing strong for 100 years, so your claims hold very little credibility. Its not instinctive within the population, its being bought about by the fascists in power who have introduced increasingly oppress enviournments for our journalists to further there agenda's against the Kemalists and the Turkish army establishment. The EU has helped in this process, no doubt.

    I hope the army overthrows Erdogan and burns him on a cross as much as anyone. So back to the topic. Not too sure what your point is, if your suggesting its not possible they integrate/become secular and/or coexist with them, its your logical that is deeply flawed and baseless.
    "If religious instruction were not allowed until the child had attained the age of reason, we would be living in quite a different world" - Christopher Hitchens
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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Pretty poor anology Red. It hasn't started yet which is the right time to have this debate, rather than saying nothing until it is built then arguing against it.

    j-mac
    It's the right time to have the debate, sure. However, saying it has not worked yet, when it has not started is a pretty piss poor argument. That was the point.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    nonsense, to oppose this project all one needs do is believe that it is NOT improving relations, which it's not

    look around

    what is the purpose for building this mosque, again?
    Primarily, to provide a place of worship for those individual believers of the Muslim faith.

    Secondly, to provide "a cultural center that strengthens ties between Muslims and people of all faiths and backgrounds".

    Again, I understand the sensativity issue here, as well as the suspicion and mistrust so many people have concerning the building of this Mosque. It's why I've said that the government should still do their investigative work and if it is discovered that there's some shadiness involved in the funding or use of this Mosque law enforcement should do their due diligence. In other words, allow it to be built because there's no credible evidence to deny it's construction. The owner followed local law, paid the prerequisite permit fee, and his building plans met approval by the city building commission. There's no real reason to deny its construction except for our own emotional hangup. Again, I get the objection here.

    -The 9/11 attackers used charitable organizations to funnel money into the U.S. that ultimately was used to pay for supplies, as well as, the daily living expenses of terrorist who laid in wait to attack us.

    -Members of terrorist sleeper cells used Mosques, specifically in NYC but also in other cities across this country, as a hiding place to coordinate their attack.

    -Imans at some Mosques use these holy places to further the spread of hatred against the very country that provides them basic human rights, and they used those rights against us.

    Believe me, I GET IT! But I also understand that to deny its construction would violate some of our basic rights and values. And that, above all else, is far more important than catering to our fears.

    If we're going to tell the world that democracy matters, then we had very damned well practise what we preach. (Excuse the pun.)

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    As I've said in this thread before, they could probably sell the land for a tidy profit and build a better and bigger community centre with a mosque inside it elsewhere if it really offends you that much.
    good, do it, that's all most americans are asking

    The only assertions being made in this thread and in others is that all Islam means terror.
    hardly

    mr rauf, it's really very simple

    since you say your entire purpose here is to improve relations, and since the proposed location of your cordoba house is deeply offensive to millions and millions of the people you say you're trying to relate to, move your mosque

    as long as you stay where you are, your stated purpose can never be fulfilled

    like i said, it's all so simple

    he'll move it, give him just a little more time

    his political support in new york is crashing

    let's keep talking about this!

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