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Thread: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    IRA, Abortion clinic bombers, Hutaree.



    Remember the crusades?



    The Raw Story | Huckabee: Amend Constitution to be in 'God's standards'



    Replace Islam with Catholic, and violent with child molesting.



    This story kinda shows that.




    I figured it was pretty obvious.
    Care to explain to us why the Crusades were launched, to begin with? Was it White, European Christian bigotry?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I'm going to take a risk and make a statement I know is going to paint me in a bad light, but...

    In a way, American policy may have led to 9/11. It goes back to our nation's foreign policy where the U.S. supported fostering Arab/Isreal relations but held a very negative/narrow view of Muslim extremism. I'm sure history will show that we had reason to be so suspecious, but by being the leading in fostering an attitute that over time has left Muslims nations out of world political affairs, we've inadvertantly created this world view that Muslim ideology is evil when in reality only those nations that take an extreme, radical view of Islam have proven themselves to be wrong. Radical Islam fought back, i.e., 9/11, but honorable Islam even here in our country condemned their actions.

    Again, filter out the white-noise and review the historical content then reach your own conclusion on the matter.
    I conclude your view point is very apologetic to Islam and is a borderline "excuse". Were life to be lived where bad actions can be blamed as an inadvertant act netting bad results... the following would be true:

    - It's America's policy on legalized guns that inadvertantly cause thousands of murders in this country
    - It's America's policy on "freedom of religion" that caused thousands of young boys and girls to be molested in Catholic Churches over decades.
    - It's Amerca's policy on banning trade and contact with Cuba, that has caused that country's economy to suffer and many of their people to live in poverty.

    Using your view of things, everything can be blamed on everything - therefore, no group or individual is ever at fault or responsible and everyone can play "victim".
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I'm going to take a risk and make a statement I know is going to paint me in a bad light, but...

    In a way, American policy may have led to 9/11. It goes back to our nation's foreign policy where the U.S. supported fostering Arab/Isreal relations but held a very negative/narrow view of Muslim extremism. I'm sure history will show that we had reason to be so suspecious, but by being the leading in fostering an attitute that over time has left Muslims nations out of world political affairs, we've inadvertantly created this world view that Muslim ideology is evil when in reality only those nations that take an extreme, radical view of Islam have proven themselves to be wrong. Radical Islam fought back, i.e., 9/11, but honorable Islam even here in our country condemned their actions.

    Again, filter out the white-noise and review the historical content then reach your own conclusion on the matter.
    The Muslims didn't have any excuse to attack us. Our foreign policy was in our best interest. That's the same as saying that it's our fault that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    ***CORRECTION to my post #399***

    I've always been a firm believer that in order to discern what the truth really is, one must seek knowledge for himself. With so much information being thrown at us each and every day from so many sources, the only way to filter out the political "white-noise", IMO, is to take a step back and collect information from as many non-partician sources as possible and apply that knowledge based within its historical content.
    Discovered my error after re-reading it moments ago. I don't want anyone to mischaracterize what I meant.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I'm going to take a risk and make a statement I know is going to paint me in a bad light, but...

    In a way, American policy may have led to 9/11.
    We invented Islam? Learn something knew everyday.

    It goes back to our nation's foreign policy where the U.S. supported fostering Arab/Isreal relations
    U.S. support of Israel is responsible for 9-11? So I take it U.S. support for Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia would be casus belli for a Jewish terrorist attack on the U.S.?

    but held a very negative/narrow view of Muslim extremism.
    So we were supposed to hold a positive view of Muslim extremism?

    I'm sure history will show that we had reason to be so suspecious, but by being the leading in fostering an attitute that over time has left Muslims nations out of world political affairs,
    Which Muslim nations exactly? Which Muslim nations has the U.S. barred from world political affairs? Last time I checked even Iran has a seat at the UN.

    we've inadvertantly created this world view that Muslim ideology is evil when in reality only those nations that take an extreme, radical view of Islam have proven themselves to be wrong.
    You mean the mainstream Islam wherein the only accepted view is that the penalities for apostasy, homosexuality, adultery, and/or premarital sex is corporal and/or capital punishment, that honorable Islam?

    Radical Islam fought back, i.e., 9/11,
    Fought back against what exactly?

    but honorable Islam even here in our country condemned their actions.
    You mean the mainstream Islam wherein the only accepted view is that the penalities for apostasy, homosexuality, adultery, and/or premarital sex is corporal and/or capital punishment, that honorable Islam?

    Again, filter out the white-noise and review the historical content then reach your own conclusion on the matter.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I get that Obama is backing away from a perceived notion that he's weighing in on a local matter which is, to say the least, inflammatory and will do him or Democrats zero good politically. That he feels the compunction to say anything is... ill advised and naive. He should avoid this subject like the black plague. What the hell is he thinking - he needs to shut his pie hole and continue blaming Bush for something.
    I disagree. The President IS the face of our nation in every respect. As such, he has a responsibility, if not a duty, to defend our nation's values whenever and wherever those values are being sorely misrepresented. You folks have to remember the world is watching. CORRECTION: The Muslim world is watching. And while many here in the U.S. will view this as the President appeasing radical Islam, the truth is he is upholding America's values and the constitutionality of this Mosque being built. To do otherwise is hypocritical, a reversal of basic human rights (freedom of religion) and subversion of the very Constitution we all hold so dear. It's a shame that so many of you don't see that but instead would rather inject politics into this matter at ever turn.

    Sad...very sad.

    Agent,

    Please read my post again only this time don't try so hard to disect it because in this case you come away with the wrong conclusion and espouse the wrong view.

    Of course America didn't invent Islam. Don't be absord! It is a religon that's been around for thousands of years. You're being very ridiculous here.

    I didn't say that our support of Arab/Isreal in and of itslef led to 9/11. I said maybe...maybe some of our foreign policies that led the way for exclusion of Muslim nations from the world stage but fostered inclusion of Arab/Isreal may have led to Muslim extremism that eventually led to 9/11. I also said that history may prove our position to have been correct.

    Let me ask you these questions:

    When exactly did Iran become a member of the U.N.?

    How many other Muslim nations are also part of this world organization?

    Why are they excluded?

    What nation primarily has led the way for their exclusion?

    Why are they set apart from participating in shaping world policies?

    Again, I'm not saying that their exclusion was not justified. I am saying, however, that doing so may have led to the growth of Muslim extremism over the years and how radical Muslim extremist saw fit to project their anger at the U.S. on that faithful day.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-15-10 at 04:13 PM.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I disagree. The President IS the face of our nation in every respect. As such, he has a responsibility, if not a duty, to defend our nation's values whenever and wherever those values are being sorely misrepresented. You folks have to remember the world is watching. CORRECTION: The Muslim world is watching. And while many here in the U.S. will view this as the President appeasing radical Islam, the truth is he is upholding America's values and the constitutionality of this Mosque being built. To do otherwise is hypocritical, a reversal of basic human rights (freedom of religion) and subversion of the very Constitution we all hold so dear. It's a shame that so many of you don't see that but instead would rather inject politics into this matter at ever turn.

    Sad...very sad.
    My understanding is that few have actually challenged the right of the mosque to build there, which is the only thing that Obama has claimed to have defended. I'm not sure how he's defending an American value if that value wasn't seriously questioned.

    The question of whether it's smart or sensitive to build there is an entirely different one, one which doesn't involve American values and one which wasn't addressed by Obama.
    Last edited by RightinNYC; 08-15-10 at 03:58 PM.
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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    My understanding is that few have actually challenged the right of the mosque to build there, which is the only thing that Obama has claimed to have defended. I'm not sure how he's defending an American value if that value wasn't seriously questioned.
    the idea of a mosque being built there, just touches raw nerves from 9/11, and the idea of anything representing islam/ muslims being built there, will drive many absolutely crazy, regardless if building it there is absolutely legal or not...feelings that i understand, and it makes me wonder why, supporters of this mosque, would want to build there...they have to have known what kind of response they would get.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I disagree. The President IS the face of our nation in every respect. As such, he has a responsibility, if not a duty, to defend our nation's values whenever and wherever those values are being sorely misrepresented. You folks have to remember the world is watching. CORRECTION: The Muslim world is watching. And while many here in the U.S. will view this as the President appeasing radical Islam, the truth is he is upholding America's values and the constitutionality of this Mosque being built. To do otherwise is hypocritical, a reversal of basic human rights (freedom of religion) and subversion of the very Constitution we all hold so dear. It's a shame that so many of you don't see that but instead would rather inject politics into this matter at ever turn.

    Sad...very sad.
    A) Yes they have the right to build their Mosque, that doesn't mean that the group itself should be supported and/or defended.

    B) Who gives a **** if the Muslim world is watching as if they have a single thing to say in regards to defending religious tolerance. Should we be dictating domestic policy in regards to what the Muslim world thinks?

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Agent Ferris View Post
    B) Who gives a **** if the Muslim world is watching as if they have a single thing to say in regards to defending religious tolerance. Should we be dictating domestic policy in regards to what the Muslim world thinks?
    Not only, but people who tend to make this argument would also tend to reject the idea that the watching "Muslim world" may also conclude that we're surrendering to them, culturally, even in a small way.

    "Symbolism" works a lot of different ways. There is no one-way street.
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