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Thread: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

  1. #361
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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Something just dawned on me. Not being big on religion, a thought ran through my mind. I asked myself, "How many christians do we see blowing themselves up and crashing planes into buildings?"

    Then another thought crossed my mind. From the perspective of someone in the middle east, do they view our troops as "Christians?" And, if so, who can deny that we have put more Muslims into body bags than muslims have shrouded christians.

    Is there really a religious war going on in the minds of the faithful?

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by joergan View Post
    IMHO, there are several definitions that all need to be applied simultaneously to a religion:

    1-it must offer a peaceful method of interaction with both its adherents and non-belivers (islam fails this)
    2-it must offer the ability to be flexible and morph over time to remain relevant in modern context (islam fails this)
    3-it must not seek to brainwash adherents, that only its way is the Right One (both islam and christianity fail this, but islam's merger of both the spiritual and political lead to a greater failure)
    4-it must not accept the use of violence to expand its reach (islam badly fails this)

    These are but a few that come to mind, but you get the point.
    Yes, I get the point. But you're wrong. I do get it that it's YHO, though.
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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The man who said "True Islam cannot be practiced in this country" and called islam "a very evil and wicked religion"? Can't imagine why the Pentagon disinvited him...
    "Osama Bin Laden is a product of the United States", and, "the United States is an accessory to 9/11"? I'm having a hard time trying to figure out why the Lefties can't see why this mosque--especially because of it's location--and it's immam--whom refuses to admit that Hamas is a terrorist org--are so offensive.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain America View Post
    Something just dawned on me. Not being big on religion, a thought ran through my mind. I asked myself, "How many christians do we see blowing themselves up and crashing planes into buildings?"

    Then another thought crossed my mind. From the perspective of someone in the middle east, do they view our troops as "Christians?" And, if so, who can deny that we have put more Muslims into body bags than muslims have shrouded christians.

    Is there really a religious war going on in the minds of the faithful?
    There were alotta Muslims that saw this as a religious war, before the first US soldier set foot on Afghan, or Iraqi soil.

    As far as tagging and bagging Muslims, there have been far more Muslims killed by Muslims since the GWOT started than from American actions.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It's not his fault [LOL!] people distort them.
    the journo-listers are distorting?

    LOL!

    more distortions from the professional left:

    "on saturday obama seemed to contradict himself"

    his comments "sent sharply different signals that may have called into question how clearly the president thought thru his intentions in this controversy or how his words would echo"

    "the two comments, rather than clarifying obama's views, may raise more questions: had he unintentionally spoken too strongly the nite before, or had he lost his nerve after the vehement early reactions?"

    smart presidents don't "muddle messaging" on key, in-the-gut questions on the eve of important elections

    but barry does

    (i hope i didn't quote too much from the source---3 complete sentences and a 2-word phrase---per forum rules)
    Last edited by The Prof; 08-15-10 at 01:36 PM.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Looks like Obama is conducting some damage control this morning.

    “Well, my intention was simply to let people know what I thought,” Obama said Saturday when asked about his Friday speech after an event in Panama City, Fla., about the BP oil spill. “In this country we treat everybody equally and in accordance with the law, regardless of race, regardless of religion. I was not commenting and I will not comment on the wisdom of making the decision to put a mosque there. I was commenting very specifically on the right people have that dates back to our founding. That's what our country is about.”

    Read more: Speech on mosque was Obama's call - Carol E. Lee - POLITICO.com
    IOW, "They have the legal right to build the mosque, but it's a dumb assed idea, because so many people are offended"

    He can't come right out and say that, though, because it may offend Allah. But, he still has to get re-elected and Allah can't vote.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Some additional points:

    1. Polls reflect public sentiment at a given point in time on a given issue. Repeated polls can reflect trends in public sentiment.

    2. Leadership requires more than merely catering to public sentiment. Sometimes necessary decisions are not likely to be popular. For example, fiscal consolidation is one area that is not likely to be popular. Once the public feels the bite of a combination of spending reductions/slowed spending growth and tax hikes, the public sentiment will probably run against fiscal consolidation. Yet, such consolidation is absolutely necessary if the nation is to address its long-term imbalances and avoid a fiscal/debt crisis down the road.

    3. IMO, if it comes down to a choice between current public sentiment, where emotions may well be running high, and bedrock principles on which the U.S. was established e.g., religious tolerance, I believe leaders should embrace those bedrock principles. There is no credible evidence today that religious tolerance is a flawed principle and that the First Amendment's basic protections should be reduced. That some might exploit the principles toward harmful ends is a small risk relative to the overall costs of reducing the scope of the most basic freedoms.

    4. Although those whose families suffered harm/losses during 9/11 might be reluctant to see a Mosque constructed near Ground Zero, the precedent of treating all Muslims as collectively responsible for that terrorist attack by denying Muslims a chance to build a Mosque is a worrying one. First, it runs counter to some of the most basic principles on which the U.S. was established. Second, it creates a dangerous rationalization by which additional freedoms can be restricted. In the heat of passions, such restrictions have occurred in the past e.g., the shameful internment of Japanese-Americans during WW II. Hence, IMO, the greater and more enduring issue of fundamental religious freedoms should take precedence over the temporary heated passions of the day. If those organizing the Mosque wish to change their plans, that is their choice, but that choice should not be compelled by the federal, state or city governments. Political leaders would do well to better explain why the nation's most basic principles are at stake and why it makes sense to lend support to those principles.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 08-15-10 at 01:40 PM.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Spamming the same message over and over again is a poor way to prove a point.
    neither is dismissing offhand as "without merit" the sincere opinions of various members on a dozen occassions

    you wanna see em?

    they taste like spam, which proccessed by-product makes a plurality of americans (by TWENTY SEVEN points on this topic) retch

    LOL!

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    "Osama Bin Laden is a product of the United States", and, "the United States is an accessory to 9/11"? I'm having a hard time trying to figure out why the Lefties can't see why this mosque--especially because of it's location--and it's immam--whom refuses to admit that Hamas is a terrorist org--are so offensive.
    You miss the point. From my point of view, whether they are offensive is irrelevant. Legally, they are permitted(so far). As long as they are permitted, it's up to them. I don't think it is a good idea to ban any religious building that follows the laws. It could be Church of Satan, it could be Southern Baptists(who I hate above all things), it is irrelevant. The first amendment is too important.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

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    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    You miss the point. From my point of view, whether they are offensive is irrelevant. Legally, they are permitted(so far). As long as they are permitted, it's up to them. I don't think it is a good idea to ban any religious building that follows the laws. It could be Church of Satan, it could be Southern Baptists(who I hate above all things), it is irrelevant. The first amendment is too important.
    Being so offensive is very relevant, in this case.

    The Leftist position on this mosque only goes to prove the hypocrisy that the garden variety Leftie posesses. If the KKK opened up their Alabama headquarters across the street from the 16th street Baptist Church, in Birmingham, you would all be up-n-arms over it. Why? Because it's offensive! All kinds of laws and local ordinances would be twisted and changed to stop it, too. The same way that laws and ordinances were changed to allow this mosque to be built.

    Just goes to show how political correctness sucks donkey balls.

    To top it off, this asshole imam was actually hired by the government to go on an outreach tour in the ME. First of all, that's a violation of the seperation of church and state. Second, it gives credibility to this asshole, who deserves none. I believe that it's a fund raising tour vice an outreach mission. He's probably meeting with his jihadist brothers to raise money to build the mosque, which will be seen as a victory over the United States, in the eyes of most Muslims.
    Last edited by apdst; 08-15-10 at 01:42 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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