President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

Jetboogieman · Aug 16, 2010

rhinefire said:
One has to respect the sensitvity of others.

You're right.... you can oppose it all you want.

Yes our constitution is our platform but anyone would have to question why INSIST on this location?

That isn't the point. As I understand it, they bought the land in 1998... those evil Muslims knew 9/11 was gonna happen.

The more I see the opposition to this... the more I just don't care anymore. Is it a good idea? No. But this thing isn't going to "Tower Over Ground Zero" As has been suggested. It's 2 blocks away, people need to get over themselves, this mosque won't change anything.

The law does not require you to attend your mothers funeral but you should go anyway should you not?

Strawman.

The Prof · Aug 16, 2010

Andalublue said:
Should we believe the anti-Mosque-ovites we would have to believe that:

All Muslims are terrorists

Barack Obama is a Muslim

Barack Obama is secretly conspiring with the Muslims (terrorists) to take over the USA

Saudi Aarbia is a good country to do business with and a great base for our military, but they are evil Muslims (terrorists)

That the Islamic Cultural Centre will really be just a Mosque

That the 'Mosque' will be built over the remains of the Twin Towers

That the people who will use the centre will be sitting inside laughing at how they have managed to invade the heart of the infidel, "Ha ha! Die American dogs!"

nonsense, to oppose this project all one needs do is believe that it is NOT improving relations, which it's not

look around

what is the purpose for building this mosque, again?

j-mac · Aug 16, 2010

Jetboogieman said:
You're right.... you can oppose it all you want.

I am sure we all appreciate your permission.

That isn't the point. As I understand it, they bought the land in 1998... those evil Muslims knew 9/11 was gonna happen.

In 1998 you say? Hmmmm....Well, in 1993 there was an event that many now consider the precursor to 9/11....

The 1993 World Trade Center bombing occurred on February 26, 1993, when a truck bomb was detonated below the North Tower of the World Trade Center in New York City. The 1,500 lb (680 kg) urea nitrate–hydrogen gas enhanced device[1] was intended to knock the North Tower (Tower One) into the South Tower (Tower Two), bringing both towers down and killing thousands of people.[2][3] It failed to do so, but did kill six people and injured 1,042.

1993 World Trade Center bombing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So when you say that Imam Rauf and his mysterious partners in this affront didn't know in 1998....They did indeed know that an attempt had already happened, and they very well could have been privy to the chatter surrounding attacking America by radicals that ultimately did.

he more I see the opposition to this... the more I just don't care anymore. Is it a good idea? No. But this thing isn't going to "Tower Over Ground Zero" As has been suggested. It's 2 blocks away, people need to get over themselves, this mosque won't change anything.

Um, wrong again. Look, There is nothing yet rebuilt on the Ground Zero site, which IMHO is a travesty to begin with, however, we should not even be having this argument until the site is redeveloped with what they are going to replace the Twin Towers with. PERIOD! In that case the mosque will indeed tower over the site in a manner of speaking.

Now one of your ridiculous claims is that it is not directly on the site so we in opposition should just suck it up and let it go forth, ya know, to show 'tolerance' and all. There are over 90 mosques in NYC alone, and over a thousand nation wide. Tolerance they want? Really? Where is their tolerance in the sensibilities of building this grotesque symbol of conquest a mere 600 feet from where 3,000 people lost their lives, and families still grieve their loss.

Let's take a look at the naming of this insulting temple of conquest.

After the Islamic conquest of the Visigothic kingdom the Emir Abd ar-Rahman I bought the church.[3] Abd ar-Rahman I and his descendants reworked it over two centuries to refashion it as a mosque...

Great Mosque of Córdoba - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The true history of Cordoba, not to mention the whole of Andalusia, is far less inspiring than what Western academics portray: the Christian city was conquered by Muslims around 711, its inhabitants slaughtered or enslaved. The original mosque of Cordoba—the namesake of the Ground Zero mosque—was built atop, and partly from the materials of, a Christian church. Modern day Muslims are well aware of all this. Such is the true—and ominous—legacy of Cordoba.

More pointedly, throughout Islam's history, whenever a region was conquered, one of the first signs of consolidation was/is the erection of a mosque atop the sacred sites of the vanquished: the pagan Ka'ba temple in Arabia was converted into Islam's holiest site, the mosque of Mecca; the al-Aqsa mosque, Islam's third holiest site, was built atop Solomon's temple in Jerusalem; the Umayyad mosque was built atop the Church of St. John the Baptist; and the Hagia Sophia was converted into a mosque upon the conquest of Constantinople.

(Speaking of, in 2006, when the Pope visited the Hagia Sophia in Turkey, there was a risk that the "Islamic world [would go] into paroxysms of fury" if there was "any perception that the pope is trying to re-appropriate a Christian center that fell to Muslims," for example, if he had dared pray there—this even as Muslims today seek to build a mosque on the rubble of the Twin Towers.)

The Two Faces of the Ground Zero Mosque :: Raymond Ibrahim

This is a building of conquest and Imperial subjugation of America for the new caliphate, and the Imam Rauf is a liar.

j-mac

kaya'08 · Aug 16, 2010

Agent Ferris said:
I'll tell him right now that in all five major schools of Islam the only accepted views are that the penalties for apostasy, adultery, sodomy, and/or premarital sex are corporal and/or capital punishment and that is why mainstream Islam is out of touch with the modern world and antithetical to a liberal society.

And that is true, which is why the Middle East needs to take Western countries as a perfect example of the benefits and the humanity of secularism. Christianity too, though not as much, is out of touch with liberal society.

Just because it has conservative views in nature, does not mean they are all bad people and they are all terrorists. They can become secular and as Western as any folk, as Israel and Turkey has proved (Erdogans recent attempts to pervert it aside).

It is possible to live beside them if we educate them. We fight and spread our values of freedom around the world, not respecting these values at home undermines our legitimacy as Democratic people who respect the freedom of others.

The Prof said:
unbelievable

Reported.

Jetboogieman · Aug 16, 2010

j-mac said:
I am sure we all appreciate your permission.

My point is you have every right to oppose it, as they have to build it.

In 1998 you say? Hmmmm....Well, in 1993 there was an event that many now consider the precursor to 9/11....

True, but where was all the fear about muslims back then. If they had built a mosque 2 blocks away after that attack, would anyone have said anything?

So when you say that Imam Rauf and his mysterious partners in this affront didn't know in 1998....They did indeed know that an attempt had already happened, and they very well could have been privy to the chatter surrounding attacking America by radicals that ultimately did.

You wanna prove he had prior knowledge of 9/11? Remember, under the law, we're asked to prove positives, not negatives.

Um, wrong again. Look, There is nothing yet rebuilt on the Ground Zero site, which IMHO is a travesty to begin with, however, we should not even be having this argument until the site is redeveloped with what they are going to replace the Twin Towers with. PERIOD! In that case the mosque will indeed tower over the site in a manner of speaking.

Is it all the muslims fault that nothing has been built at ground zero yet?

Now one of your ridiculous claims is that it is not directly on the site so we in opposition should just suck it up and let it go forth, ya know, to show 'tolerance' and all. There are over 90 mosques in NYC alone, and over a thousand nation wide. Tolerance they want? Really? Where is their tolerance in the sensibilities of building this grotesque symbol of conquest a mere 600 feet from where 3,000 people lost their lives, and families still grieve their loss.

600 feet... 900 feet... 1000 feet... how far is too far?

This is a building of conquest and Imperial subjugation of America for the new caliphate, and the Imam Rauf is a liar.

j-mac

/Facepalm

Says the person who's country has bases in 63 countries around the world.

j-mac · Aug 16, 2010

kaya'08 said:
And that is true, which is why the Middle East needs to take Western countries as a perfect example of the benefits and the humanity of secularism. Christianity too, though not as much, is out of touch with liberal society.

Just because it has conservative views in nature, does not mean they are all bad people and they are all terrorists. They can become secular and as Western as any folk, as Israel and Turkey has proved (Erdogans recent attempts to pervert it aside).

It is possible to live beside them if we educate them. We fight and spread our values of freedom around the world, not respecting these values at home undermines our legitimacy as Democratic people who respect the freedom of others.

Nonsense. We don't even begin to understand fully the religious teachings, that for example allow its followers in a caliphate to do anything to win the submission of those they are focusing on to conquer.

Including lying, and killing them.

Your naive approach is exactly what has allowed many in history to by ruled, and killed by an Islamic yoke for centuries.

j-mac

The Prof · Aug 16, 2010

absolutely---when mr rauf says he's building this mosque in order "to improve west-muslim relations," he's either an idiot or he's not really speaking his heart

meanwhile, abc this morning

President Obama's Mosque Comments Add Issue to Democrats' Election Challenge - ABC News

things were already tuff enough as is for the blues, notes rick klein---the president's SUMMER OF RECOVERY turned out to be one very unfunny joke, we will end the hot months with FEWER jobs than we started with, "barring an astounding august turnaround"

The president spoke in forceful tones about the need for American values to win out at the site near Ground Zero -- though he seemed to muddle the message a day later by saying that he wasn't necessarily endorsing the idea of building the mosque and cultural center.

But from the perspective of rank-and-file Democrats who represent districts far from downtown New York City, this is an unwelcome distraction that leaves them on the minority side of a hot-button issue.

In a CNN poll taken last week, 68 percent of respondents said they opposed the plan to build a mosque near Ground Zero.

forceful tones and muddled messages---that's our barry!

gallup sunday has the putz at a new all time low, what will tomorrow bring

Gallup.Com - Daily News, Polls, Public Opinion on Government, Politics, Economics, Management

kaya'08 · Aug 16, 2010

j-mac said:
Nonsense. We don't even begin to understand fully the religious teachings, that for example allow its followers in a caliphate to do anything to win the submission of those they are focusing on to conquer.

Including lying, and killing them.

Your naive approach is exactly what has allowed many in history to by ruled, and killed by an Islamic yoke for centuries.

j-mac

What exactly are you saying?

j-mac · Aug 16, 2010

Jetboogieman said:
My point is you have every right to oppose it, as they have to build it.

No one has said that they don't, but public pressure to do the right thing can often bring about change in location for a great many things.

True, but where was all the fear about muslims back then. If they had built a mosque 2 blocks away after that attack, would anyone have said anything?

I prefer to live in the here and now, back then is of no concern to what is happening today, other than to prove you wrong in your assertion.

You wanna prove he had prior knowledge of 9/11? Remember, under the law, we're asked to prove positives, not negatives.

I never said that he absolutely did. I said it was possible, destroying yet another of your assertions.

Is it all the muslims fault that nothing has been built at ground zero yet?

Again, no one has said that "ALL" muslims bear responsibility for what happened on 9/11, in fact I went to lengths to show that there are plenty of mosques in NYC and the US proving that fact.

/Facepalm

You have nothing, try again. This time educate yourself on the history and possible motives of this mosque before posting.

Says the person who's country has bases in 63 countries around the world.

Are you conceding that this mosque is a possible 'Base' of operation for the Islamic Jihad?

j-mac

MaggieD · Aug 16, 2010

SgtRock said:
New York Post
Aug 13, 2010 President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque - NYPOST.com

As of today 61% of New Yorkers many of them democrats, are aginst the ground zero mosque. Obama comes out in support. Not a very smart move on his part.

I answered this earlier that he didn't really support the mosque -- he supported their right to build a mosque.

After reading the thread and hearing the pundits, I now think it was a big mistake for him to weigh in on this issue at all. And everything he and his White House reps say to clarify his comments does nothing but dig a deeper hole. He shoulda' kept his mouth shut.

Redress · Aug 16, 2010

The Prof said:
nonsense, to oppose this project all one needs do is believe that it is NOT improving relations, which it's not

look around

what is the purpose for building this mosque, again?

Brilliant! A project that has not even really started is not getting the desired results yet, so they should cancel it. That is pure brilliance. I can see like the Manhattan Project: "well, we have not started yet, but we have not split the atom yet, so let's just cancel".

j-mac · Aug 16, 2010

kaya'08 said:
What exactly are you saying?

I am saying that Turkey is in flux right now, searching for their identity amidst a population that is 99% Muslim. So your calls for tolerance and moderation have to be taken with that knowledge.

Even political censorship, which in itself is not unheard of in Turkey, is now practiced in the name of religious modesty. Last week, for example, the ministry of education set off a storm of anger with its regulation decreeing that images of the well-known Delacroix painting "Liberty Leading the People" be removed from schoolbooks. The reason: the bare breasts of the standard-bearer in the depiction of France's 1830 July Revolution.
Islamic bathing costumes are becoming more popular in Turkey these days.
Recently, the ministry of education itself was outraged over the fact that several publishing companies had, on their own initiative, rewritten children's books that the ministry had recommended for classroom use. In the edited versions, Pinocchio, Heidi and Tom Sawyer live in an Islamic world where inhabitants wish each other a "blessed morning" or ask for food "in Allah's name." Aramis, one of the Three Musketeers, even converts to Islam.

Turkey in Transition: Less Europe, More Islam - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

. . . Turkey's increasing disinterest in the European Union combined with its efforts to re-establish its influence in Turkic countries of Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan and its outreaches to Russian [sic], Syria and Iran are cause for concern.

. . . the shift by Tayyip Recep Erdogan, Turkey's leader, from West to East was obvious, because Turkey announced [some months ago] it was cutting Israel out of annual military exercises involving NATO forces while it sought out military exercises with Syria.

As for Turkey’s statements, Shoebat told WND, “Erdogan is saying 1.5 billion Muslims are waiting for the Turkish government to arise. This is pretty scary. Turkey rules only 70 million people so why are they talking about 1.5 billion Muslims?”

Is Turkey the Next Big Islamic Threat?

You tell me?

j-mac

j-mac · Aug 16, 2010

Redress said:
Brilliant! A project that has not even really started is not getting the desired results yet, so they should cancel it. That is pure brilliance. I can see like the Manhattan Project: "well, we have not started yet, but we have not split the atom yet, so let's just cancel".

Pretty poor anology Red. It hasn't started yet which is the right time to have this debate, rather than saying nothing until it is built then arguing against it.

j-mac

LimeLight · Aug 16, 2010

j-mac said:
Are you conceding that this mosque is a possible 'Base' of operation for the Islamic Jihad?

j-mac

My goodness. Where do people lead to this conclusion.

More pointedly, throughout Islam's history, whenever a region was conquered, one of the first signs of consolidation was/is the erection of a mosque atop the sacred sites of the vanquished: the pagan Ka'ba temple in Arabia was converted into Islam's holiest site, the mosque of Mecca; the al-Aqsa mosque, Islam's third holiest site, was built atop Solomon's temple in Jerusalem; the Umayyad mosque was built atop the Church of St. John the Baptist; and the Hagia Sophia was converted into a mosque upon the conquest of Constantinople.

I suppose islam has conquered the Burlington Coat Factory and will convert it into a giant monument of 2 planes hitting the twin towers!

The Prof · Aug 16, 2010

Redress said:
Brilliant! A project that has not even really started is not getting the desired results yet, so they should cancel it. That is pure brilliance. I can see like the Manhattan Project: "well, we have not started yet, but we have not split the atom yet, so let's just cancel".

the mosque and the a-bomb

the baptists and the kkk, noted

LOL!

YouTube - Twilight Zone intro.

no, machiavelli, since mr rauf is not "yet" achieving his desired results of "improving relations," he should just CRAM his friendship down the throats of his neighbors, willing or not

just like obamacare

mr rauf, if you really want to improve relations, you're simply gonna have to move your church

it's your move, mr rauf

america's watching (ask hall in 19, owens in 23, bishop in 1, mcmahon in unlucky 13...)

Jetboogieman · Aug 16, 2010

j-mac said:
No one has said that they don't, but public pressure to do the right thing can often bring about change in location for a great many things.

As I've said in this thread before, they could probably sell the land for a tidy profit and build a better and bigger community centre with a mosque inside it elsewhere if it really offends you that much.

I prefer to live in the here and now, back then is of no concern to what is happening today, other than to prove you wrong in your assertion.

The only assertions being made in this thread and in others is that all Islam means terror. This is not correct.

I never said that he absolutely did. I said it was possible, destroying yet another of your assertions.

I made no assertion, I posed a question of true or false? Which I see now is false. Cheers!

Again, no one has said that "ALL" muslims bear responsibility for what happened on 9/11, in fact I went to lengths to show that there are plenty of mosques in NYC and the US proving that fact.

If you can stop one. You can stop one again... and again... and again.

You have nothing, try again. This time educate yourself on the history and possible motives of this mosque before posting.

and I suggest you take your fear and emotional arguments out of the equation as well.

This mosque may be a bad idea. I never said it wasn't. But the fact of the matter is, it's not going to "Tower Over Ground Zero"

If you take away their rights, you rienforce the cycle of fear between you, you prove that you are everything the radicals said you would be. You have to do what you must to end that cycle, or it will destroy you.

Are you conceding that this mosque is a possible 'Base' of operation for the Islamic Jihad?

j-mac

:doh

Jesus christ. Is there no sanity left in this world?

kaya'08 · Aug 16, 2010

j-mac said:
I am saying that Turkey is in flux right now, searching for their identity amidst a population that is 99% Muslim. So your calls for tolerance and moderation have to be taken with that knowledge.

Im pretty sure i said "erdogans attempts to pervert it aside".

Secularism has been doing strong for 100 years, so your claims hold very little credibility. Its not instinctive within the population, its being bought about by the fascists in power who have introduced increasingly oppress enviournments for our journalists to further there agenda's against the Kemalists and the Turkish army establishment. The EU has helped in this process, no doubt.

I hope the army overthrows Erdogan and burns him on a cross as much as anyone. So back to the topic. Not too sure what your point is, if your suggesting its not possible they integrate/become secular and/or coexist with them, its your logical that is deeply flawed and baseless.

Redress · Aug 16, 2010

j-mac said:
Pretty poor anology Red. It hasn't started yet which is the right time to have this debate, rather than saying nothing until it is built then arguing against it.

j-mac

It's the right time to have the debate, sure. However, saying it has not worked yet, when it has not started is a pretty piss poor argument. That was the point.

Objective Voice · Aug 16, 2010

The Prof said:
nonsense, to oppose this project all one needs do is believe that it is NOT improving relations, which it's not

look around

what is the purpose for building this mosque, again?

Primarily, to provide a place of worship for those individual believers of the Muslim faith.

Secondly, to provide "a cultural center that strengthens ties between Muslims and people of all faiths and backgrounds".

Again, I understand the sensativity issue here, as well as the suspicion and mistrust so many people have concerning the building of this Mosque. It's why I've said that the government should still do their investigative work and if it is discovered that there's some shadiness involved in the funding or use of this Mosque law enforcement should do their due diligence. In other words, allow it to be built because there's no credible evidence to deny it's construction. The owner followed local law, paid the prerequisite permit fee, and his building plans met approval by the city building commission. There's no real reason to deny its construction except for our own emotional hangup. Again, I get the objection here.

-The 9/11 attackers used charitable organizations to funnel money into the U.S. that ultimately was used to pay for supplies, as well as, the daily living expenses of terrorist who laid in wait to attack us.

-Members of terrorist sleeper cells used Mosques, specifically in NYC but also in other cities across this country, as a hiding place to coordinate their attack.

-Imans at some Mosques use these holy places to further the spread of hatred against the very country that provides them basic human rights, and they used those rights against us.

Believe me, I GET IT! But I also understand that to deny its construction would violate some of our basic rights and values. And that, above all else, is far more important than catering to our fears.

If we're going to tell the world that democracy matters, then we had very damned well practise what we preach. (Excuse the pun.)

The Prof · Aug 16, 2010

Jetboogieman said:
As I've said in this thread before, they could probably sell the land for a tidy profit and build a better and bigger community centre with a mosque inside it elsewhere if it really offends you that much.

good, do it, that's all most americans are asking

The only assertions being made in this thread and in others is that all Islam means terror.

hardly

mr rauf, it's really very simple

since you say your entire purpose here is to improve relations, and since the proposed location of your cordoba house is deeply offensive to millions and millions of the people you say you're trying to relate to, move your mosque

as long as you stay where you are, your stated purpose can never be fulfilled

like i said, it's all so simple

he'll move it, give him just a little more time

his political support in new york is crashing

let's keep talking about this!

The Prof · Aug 16, 2010

Objective Voice said:
Primarily, to provide a place of worship for those individual believers of the Muslim faith.

Secondly, to provide "a cultural center that strengthens ties between Muslims and people of all faiths and backgrounds".

Again, I understand the sensativity issue here, as well as the suspicion and mistrust so many people have concerning the building of this Mosque. It's why I've said that the government should still do their investigative work and if it is discovered that there's some shadiness involved in the funding or use of this Mosque law enforcement should do their due diligence. In other words, allow it to be built because there's no credible evidence to deny it's construction. The owner followed local law, paid the prerequisite permit fee, and his building plans met approval by the city building commission. There's no real reason to deny its construction except for our own emotional hangup. Again, I get the objection here.

-The 9/11 attackers used charitable organizations to funnel money into the U.S. that ultimately was used to pay for supplies, as well as, the daily living expenses of terrorist who laid in wait to attack us.

-Members of terrorist sleeper cells used Mosques, specifically in NYC but also in other cities across this country, as a hiding place to coordinate their attack.

-Imans at some Mosques use these holy places to further the spread of hatred against the very country that provides them basic human rights, and they used those rights against us.

Believe me, I GET IT! But I also understand that to deny its construction would violate some of our basic rights and values. And that, above all else, is far more important than catering to our fears.

If we're going to tell the world that democracy matters, then we had very damned well practise what we preach. (Excuse the pun.)

yes, you DO get it, you don't have to work so hard to convince me of that, i've already seen

he has the right, that's already been decided

to deny him his right would be unamerican, and, worse, illegal

whatever

but, mr rauf, if you really want to "strengthen ties between Muslims and people of all faiths and backgrounds," what you're doing isn't working, it's making things much worse

you need to LISTEN to all these people who are not amenable to what you are pushing

the fact that you disagree with their thinking is only all the more reason you need to LISTEN

(he will, give him time, 9-11's coming, and it's gonna be HOT and LOUD)

if you really want to strengthen ties, that is

Zyphlin · Aug 16, 2010

Moderator's Warning:

The personal attacks and one liner/worder baiting posts need to cease or further thread bans will be issued

j-mac · Aug 16, 2010

Jetboogieman said:
As I've said in this thread before, they could probably sell the land for a tidy profit and build a better and bigger community centre with a mosque inside it elsewhere if it really offends you that much.

Exactly my point. So ask yourself why don't they do that?

The only assertions being made in this thread and in others is that all Islam means terror. This is not correct.

No, this is the construct that allows you to place those that oppose your naive view of this as somehow bigoted when they are not.

I made no assertion, I posed a question of true or false? Which I see now is false. Cheers!

Maybe that is how you see it, but I assure you that your "question" is an assertion, based in how you view those opposed to your POV.

If you can stop one. You can stop one again... and again... and again.

If they continue to attempt to build a Mosque of conquest at Ground Zero, then I certainly hope so.

and I suggest you take your fear and emotional arguments out of the equation as well.

Fear, and emotion are constructs that you are attributing to my argument which you seem to have trouble breaking, so you then just dismiss it under this absurd paradigm. Why don't you actually address the argument instead of your masked name calling, and obfuscation.

This mosque may be a bad idea. I never said it wasn't.

"May be"???? Ya think? :roll:

But the fact of the matter is, it's not going to "Tower Over Ground Zero"

How much of the Twin Towers are rebuilt?

If you take away their rights, you rienforce the cycle of fear between you, you prove that you are everything the radicals said you would be. You have to do what you must to end that cycle, or it will destroy you.

Yeah, yeah....pfft! :roll: This is clap trap designed to silence opposition to this Cordoba house. The American people don't agree with you sir.

While a majority of American voters think the Muslim group that wants to put a mosque near ground zero has the right to build it there, most think it would be wrong to do so.

A Fox News poll released Friday found that 61 percent of voters think the Muslim group has the right to build a mosque in lower Manhattan.

However, 64 percent think it would be wrong to put a mosque there.

FOXNews.com - Fox News Poll: 64 Percent Think It's Wrong to Build Mosque Near Ground Zero

j-mac

j-mac · Aug 16, 2010

kaya'08 said:
Im pretty sure i said "erdogans attempts to pervert it aside".

Secularism has been doing strong for 100 years, so your claims hold very little credibility. Its not instinctive within the population, its being bought about by the fascists in power who have introduced increasingly oppress enviournments for our journalists to further there agenda's against the Kemalists and the Turkish army establishment. The EU has helped in this process, no doubt.

I hope the army overthrows Erdogan and burns him on a cross as much as anyone. So back to the topic. Not too sure what your point is, if your suggesting its not possible they integrate/become secular and/or coexist with them, its your logical that is deeply flawed and baseless.

Hmmm, Erdogan is your leader, so he controls the direction of the country. I posted an article, did you read it? You can hope with all your might that the Army overthrows your government, they have not right now and that is what matters. Turkey is lurching toward fundamentalist Islam.

j-mac

The Prof · Aug 16, 2010

absolutely, it IS wrong to build a mosque THERE

because it WORSENS relations

simple

now, if you really wanna see some new york terrorists:

Bedbug City: 1 in 10 New Yorkers has grappled with bedbugs in their home

just kidding

carry on

President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon

The Prof

j-mac

kaya'08

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon

j-mac

The Prof

kaya'08

j-mac

MaggieD

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!

j-mac

j-mac

LimeLight

Active member

The Prof

Jetboogieman

Somewhere in Babylon

kaya'08

Redress

Liberal Fascist For Life!

Objective Voice

The Prof

The Prof

Zyphlin

j-mac

j-mac

The Prof