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Thread: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    I've been thinking about the examples posters have been giving comparing a status or whatever near the Arizona Memorial to what's happening w/this mosque near ground zero, and it occured to me there are two distinct differences between the two:

    1) the mosque isn't being built on Ground Zero. It does make a difference, IMO.

    2) I don't believe commercial zoning laws would come into play if the Japanesse were to attempt to erect a statue at or near the USS Arizona Memorial. I could be wrong, but I doubt that would be the case.

    So, why would the above make any difference? For starters, building or placing something directly on secrade, hallowed ground is far different from doing so near same. Ground Zero is the epicenter of the 9/11 attacks. You could make the argument that NYC was, but since the city was affected by the attack but not destroyed by it, I think it's clear what the intended target was. Otherwise, all of lower Manhatton was affected by the attack, i.e., dust that covered NYC all the way to the harbor, and you'd have to take the entire city into account.

    Second, erecting a statue is very different from constructing a commercial building. You can donate a statue and it likely wouldn't require adherence to any zoning laws; you can't construct a building w/o dealing with zoning laws and having the proper permits issued by law.

    So, that gets us back to "locality" on hallowed ground and "obeying the law" of the land. And, of course, upholding Constitutional values domestically and abroad. To some, I know this won't matter, but when you start to really look at the details, it actually does make a bit of a difference.

    Now, would I be okay with the Japanesse placing a statue over the Arizona Memorial? Nope! Absolutely not!! Why? Because I'd see that as desecrating a national monument left to honor the dead. I would, however, be okay with the Japanesse placing a statue near (as in "next to") the Arizona Memorial depending on why they're doing it and what the inscription would read. If they did so to honor their dead along with ours, my answer would be no. But if they did so to honor our dead only, sure...I'd have no problem with that because I'd see that as a form of an apology. This mosque thing is different in that you don't dedicate places of worship. You simply go their to worship. And the argument that there's already a mosque in the area is invalid. I can drive within a quarter mile from my house and pass 3 churches. In fact, there are atleast 7 churches in my neighborhood alone, most Christian, one Korean, one Catholic, one Penecostal. So, the 1 or more mosques at or near Ground Zero argument is a weak one, IMO.

    Anyway, just some food for thought...

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Objective Voice: the problem is, you are searching for rational and logical analysis and comparisons to this issue. However, if you've noticed, most people who staunchly oppose this building (especially on this forum) don't use logic or rationale in their arguments, but simply pure, unadulterated fear and hate driven emotions to rationalize their arguments. The biggest reason why none of the comparisons that have been brought up 'work', such as building a Japanese memorial at Pearl Harbor or a German cultural center at Auschwitz is because the Pearl Harbor bombings and the Holocaust were state backed, that is, the Japanese government and the German government at the time initiated, funded and carried out those events. However, 9/11 was not backed, funded, supported or carried out by any major Islamic sect, but instead, only by a radical Islamic terrorist organization. However, most conservatives are unable to differentiate between the two. To them, it was simply an attack from all of Islam. If you notice, whenever I've tried to tell this to people on here they reply with ridiculous, emotion driven answers that really don't provide for good arguments at all. So now I just try to be sarcastic. I figure, if someone who is delusional hears someone else saying delusional things, and says to himself "Wow, that guy is delusional" and then realizes "Wait a minute, he is simply mocking me! Therefore I must be delusional!"

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Hence, the reason I've said time and again we must take our emotions out of this issue and see the application of our local and state laws and how the values under our Constitution apply. I do understand the emotional side here despite not losing a loved one in the attacks. I'm an American and a Navy veteran. So, I do understand what that day means to all of us. But I also understand that portion of the oath I took so long ago, "...to support and defend the Constitution...". I understand the value of our 1st Amendment rights. However, I also understand the sensativity issue here. Nonetheless, I believe that upholding our laws and remaining true to the Constitution is far more important than how we may feel.

    "To then own self, be true."

    Are we a country that espouses hate and huddles in fear just because there's an issue that may make us feel uncomfortable, or are we a country that believes in the same basic freedoms for all that we'd want for ourselves?

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtRock View Post
    New York Post
    Aug 13, 2010



    President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque - NYPOST.com

    As of today 61% of New Yorkers many of them democrats, are aginst the ground zero mosque. Obama comes out in support. Not a very smart move on his part.

    Hey Sarge, did you know the Imam helped the FBI?

    What does that tell you about your fringe-right sources?

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post

    Many of these laws don't really apply today ad are largely ignored. But we've seen in this country Christians abusing their wives, using the bible to justify slavery and segregation and other abuses. The probem is more how some third world countries misinterpret the word (remember muslims are believers in the book and broters and sisters to both Christans and jews). This si the problem, and the American (non)Thinker does little more than play to the prejudices of it's readers, who seldom if ever question the opening premise.
    Many of your examples don't apply today either bub.....
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by RightinNYC View Post
    The first line of your link:
    BWUAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAAAA

    That was rich!!!!
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    So alot of people have been saying.

    "Hey, just not at ground zero"

    Care to comment on my findings here?

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/genera...pposition.html

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Hence, the reason I've said time and again we must take our emotions out of this issue and see the application of our local and state laws and how the values under our Constitution apply. I do understand the emotional side here despite not losing a loved one in the attacks. I'm an American and a Navy veteran. So, I do understand what that day means to all of us. But I also understand that portion of the oath I took so long ago, "...to support and defend the Constitution...". I understand the value of our 1st Amendment rights. However, I also understand the sensativity issue here. Nonetheless, I believe that upholding our laws and remaining true to the Constitution is far more important than how we may feel.

    "To then own self, be true."

    Are we a country that espouses hate and huddles in fear just because there's an issue that may make us feel uncomfortable, or are we a country that believes in the same basic freedoms for all that we'd want for ourselves?
    We are a nation of people who understand the sensitivity of others, even when others want to stomp on our own sensitivities.

    Basically, we are pushovers when it comes to "sensitive groups".
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Hey Sarge, did you know the Imam helped the FBI?

    What does that tell you about your fringe-right sources?
    Hey Hazlnut, did you know that bringing a bit of information into a debate as fact without providing someone a source to investigate WHILE criticizing someone elses source is not going to get you anywhere?
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

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    Re: President Obama comes out in support of Ground Zero mosque

    QUOTE CORRECTION - "To thyn own self, be true."

    I need a spell checker on this darn thing.

    WhooHoo! I made the 1,000th post to this thread!!! Congratulations to me!! Yea!!!
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 08-17-10 at 10:05 PM.

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