Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345
Results 41 to 46 of 46

Thread: Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons'

  1. #41
    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
    Apocalypse's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Israel
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:32 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    17,210

    Re: Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons'

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Then you explain why there is such a mark difference.... no wait you dont deal in facts. And I dont claim that the Der Spiegel article in English is biased, but that it is not the same. But then again the OP linked article is not the same as the English translation either.
    The Der Spiegel article I've read, the one I gave a link to, is much more strong worded than the JP article made over it.
    It claims the photo is authenticated and that German politicians have called for an inquiry.

    I have never ever seen any evidence from anyone that they do have it.
    The evidence provided by the article is enough to raise suspicion, that you simply rule it out without regarding to it as a possibility merely means that you don't operate by evidence.

    What evidence? The article presents no evidence but only hear say. Pictures are out of context, location and time.
    ""German experts have confirmed the authenticity of photographs that purport to show PKK fighters killed by chemical weapons. The evidence puts increasing pressure on the Turkish government, which has long been suspected of using such weapons against Kurdish rebels. German politicians are demanding an investigation.""

    -Der Spiegel

    Never said it was. I have stated that there was a marked difference in the first paragraph of the two, where as the rest is pretty much word for word translated. I have said that the OP article from the JP is biased. And that it is, not to mention inaccurate. IT calls Der Spiegel a newspaper.. it aint.
    The claims you've used to back those statements are absurd, like that Turkey has denied having such arsenal, that is hardly a statement that requires a repeating, it is well known that Turkey has never declared having a chemical arsenal.

    [quote]Which is no different than the international communities handling of issues in other countries. Now if there is evidence of wrong doing then watch the attitude change. But until that, who cares.

    I disagree, it is way different of the international community's handling of issues in specific other countries.

    First off, in the German version of the article it is EXPERT, not EXPERTS. It is one expert, named Hans Bauman.

    Secondly the second part of the above paragraph does not exist in the German version. The closest you can get to is a comment from Gisela Penteker, a Turkish (most likely a Kurd) representative of International Physicians for the prevention of nuclear war. In the comment he floats the idea that Turkey is suspected of having chemical weapons.
    I don't know about it, I hardly read German and I can't confirm your claims.

    Not really. Everyone involved pretty much in exposing this scandal come from far left organisations and Kurdish organisations.
    And the photo was authenticated according to the Der Spiegel.

    No you only want to see an evil bad Turkey using WMD.
    I see what is there. The evidence requires an investigation, one that would not take place due to the international community's dominating agenda.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

  2. #42
    Sage
    PeteEU's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Denmark
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    29,090

    Re: Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons'

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocalypse View Post
    The Der Spiegel article I've read, the one I gave a link to, is much more strong worded than the JP article made over it.
    It claims the photo is authenticated and that German politicians have called for an inquiry.
    And as I stated, the first paragraph in the English version is very different than the original German version. Why do you continue to ignore this fact? The "authentication" as you call it, is just a conformation that the pictures have not been photoshopped.

    And I just noticed that the title of the English version is totally different and gives a totally different meaning than the German.

    The English version says "Shocking images of Dead Kurdish Fighters" followed by "Turkey accused of using Chemical weapons against the PKK"

    Now the German version says "Fighting in East Antolia" and "Turkey accused of using Chemical weapons against Kurds". While the second part can be seen as acceptably close, the first part is ... so way off that it is not even funny. Some translation there.

    And this brings us back to the JP article... it states "Turkey hits PKK with chemical weapons". That is in no way near any the original article nor the English translation.. that is more than an accusation.. that is trying to state a fact that there is not. Pathetic partisan journalism

    The evidence provided by the article is enough to raise suspicion, that you simply rule it out without regarding to it as a possibility merely means that you don't operate by evidence.
    No I dont rule anything out, but I do question the evidence and where it comes from and especially with the available evidence. You on the other hand seem to believe the evidence hands down.. why is that? Is it because it is Turkey, a now "arch" enemy of Israel because of the flotilla raid?

    The claims you've used to back those statements are absurd, like that Turkey has denied having such arsenal, that is hardly a statement that requires a repeating, it is well known that Turkey has never declared having a chemical arsenal.
    Well known by who? Conspiracy theorists? Do they have nukes too then? How about secret alien flying saucers?

    I disagree, it is way different of the international community's handling of issues in specific other countries.
    Hardly. Give us examples, and no you cant use Israel. Show us examples in say South America, or Asia!

    I don't know about it, I hardly read German and I can't confirm your claims.
    From the original article.

    Inzwischen hat Hans Baumann, ein deutscher Bildfälschungsexperte, die Authentizität der Fotos verifiziert
    It states that Hans Baumnn, a German picture falsification expert, confirms the authenticity of the pictures. Google translate if you dont believe me. And I ask you this, Hans Baumann is an expert on what.. picture falsification or confirming that they are of dead PKK fighters that died of chemical weapons?

    That is one expert, not experts.

    And the photo was authenticated according to the Der Spiegel.
    yes for not being a false made up picture.... HUGE difference to confirming the content of the picture.. again you FAIL.

    I see what is there. The evidence requires an investigation, one that would not take place due to the international community's dominating agenda.
    No because no country would subject it self to outside investigation, just like Israel refuse to accommodate an international investigation into the flotilla raid.
    Last edited by PeteEU; 08-16-10 at 12:22 PM.
    PeteEU

  3. #43
    Sage
    Renae's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    San Antonio Texas
    Last Seen
    10-23-17 @ 10:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    38,972
    Blog Entries
    15

    Re: Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post
    We were told by who not to care? Der Spiegel? The JP? Governments? I remember Iraq being ostracised from the international community throughout the 90s and early 00s. Don't see any indication Turkey will receive that treatment...
    Uhm.... lead up to the Iraq War, Iraq had used WMD, weren't being forth coming, imagine people willing to gas Kurds and work with terrorist...

    I recall hearing/reading "That happened years ago, what does it matter?"

    So again, when did these "Chem attacks" happen? This year? Last Year? 10 years ago? I seem to be missing the time frame here.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



  4. #44
    Sage

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    8,360

    Re: Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons'

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben K. View Post

    The only thing I can agree on is that the timing is suspect and that this may be part of the ME propaganda war. Thing is, opposing interests to Turkey may have blocked stories like while they were cosy with Turkey and are now allowing it into the open. Propaganda does not only involve creating news but also controlling it. In any case investigation is warranted.
    Could not agree more that an investigation is warranted. Why the UN allows this type of event to be reported and not investigate says a lot about the institution. It is not as if Turkey has not killed many Kurds over the years.

  5. #45
    Guru
    Ben K.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Last Seen
    12-14-17 @ 02:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,717

    Re: Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons'

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Uhm.... lead up to the Iraq War, Iraq had used WMD, weren't being forth coming, imagine people willing to gas Kurds and work with terrorist...

    I recall hearing/reading "That happened years ago, what does it matter?"

    So again, when did these "Chem attacks" happen? This year? Last Year? 10 years ago? I seem to be missing the time frame here.
    This was revealed before the first Gulf War. As I said, Iraq was ostracised by the international community. I don't think I recall anyone suggesting we treat Iraq like how we treat Turkey currently or how we're likely to treat them even after this evidence is presented. The use of chemical weapons on Kurds wasn't presented as a causus belli for the Gluf War or the Iraq War. Your point is silly, no one is saying Turkey is as evil or more evil than Iraq was.

  6. #46
    DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!
    Apocalypse's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Israel
    Last Seen
    Today @ 04:32 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    17,210

    Re: Turks hit PKK with chemical weapons'

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    And as I stated, the first paragraph in the English version is very different than the original German version. Why do you continue to ignore this fact? The "authentication" as you call it, is just a conformation that the pictures have not been photoshopped.
    The article states that the photographs that show dead PKK members who were killed by chemical weapons is authenticated.
    That automatically places suspicion on Turkey and calls for an investigation, as the article also goes to state.

    And I just noticed that the title of the English version is totally different and gives a totally different meaning than the German.

    The English version says "Shocking images of Dead Kurdish Fighters" followed by "Turkey accused of using Chemical weapons against the PKK"

    Now the German version says "Fighting in East Antolia" and "Turkey accused of using Chemical weapons against Kurds". While the second part can be seen as acceptably close, the first part is ... so way off that it is not even funny. Some translation there.
    The English version seems to be more fitting, but I don't think that's translation, they've merely used different titles. In the article itself, the two titles are identical.

    And this brings us back to the JP article... it states "Turkey hits PKK with chemical weapons". That is in no way near any the original article nor the English translation.. that is more than an accusation.. that is trying to state a fact that there is not. Pathetic partisan journalism
    Yeah I don't like that either, they put it in apostrophes hence implying it is an accusation, the BBC does that all the time and I think it's wrong, but that implies nothing on the content of the article.

    No I dont rule anything out
    That's funny, a moment ago you have indeed ruled it out, saying that Turkey did not use chemical weapons.
    You take your words back?

    Well known by who? Conspiracy theorists? Do they have nukes too then? How about secret alien flying saucers?
    Conspiracy theorists? Whatcha talking about? I'm quoting from Wikipedia here, Turkey has never declared having a chemical arsenal.

    Hardly. Give us examples, and no you cant use Israel. Show us examples in say South America, or Asia!
    Excuse me? Why do you say "and you can't use Israel"? Is there an explanation to this condition?

    From the original article.



    It states that Hans Baumnn, a German picture falsification expert, confirms the authenticity of the pictures. Google translate if you dont believe me. And I ask you this, Hans Baumann is an expert on what.. picture falsification or confirming that they are of dead PKK fighters that died of chemical weapons?

    That is one expert, not experts.
    First of all they do not imply in the article that he's the only guy they've asked, he's the only one whose opinion they've presented. Hence the experts.

    Secondly the authentication confirms that the picture is indeed valid and that simply means that PKK members have indeed died from chemical weapons.
    Der Spiegel also states that:

    "German experts have confirmed the authenticity of photographs that purport to show PKK fighters killed by chemical weapons."

    No because no country would subject it self to outside investigation, just like Israel refuse to accommodate an international investigation into the flotilla raid.
    First of all I believe you were one of those calling for an international investigation on Israeli affairs.
    Secondly the flotilla raid is indeed investigated in an international investigation, two of them really, and Israel is cooperating with the UN one - so there you have it, epic fail.
    "The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality in times of moral crisis."

    Dante Alighieri

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 345

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •