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Ground Zero mosque bad idea: Canadian Muslims

Ikari said:
I just wanted to know if you don't like the idea of the mosque being built, but will allow it because you note it is their right to do so; if that counts as support for the mosque.
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No, I don't think that counts as support for the mosque. It's not like, "YAY!!!! They're going to build a mosqe!!" It's, "Hey, they have that right."
 
Ikari said:
I wanted to know what counted as support.
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y'know, speaking out in defense of the mosque, that's what would count as support

or, more accurately, to be seen as acting in its defense

individuals aren't conscripted to take a stand on this thorny thrust at america's heart, for or against, they can sit on the sidelines if they choose

people who speak out in defense of the mosque---there's your support

again, i find the question strange
 
Ikari said:
why should anyone be worried about a building?
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for their own personal reasons, friend

it doesn't really matter so much why they're pissed

fact is, they are

I think this is an incredibly made up reason
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and then, an extremely thoughtful, kind and sincere poster unburdens her soul to you on this question, and you see her reason as made up

???

some people don't think the way you do, there's you answer

do you really think everyone should?
 
The Prof said:
again, i find the question strange
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Well it spawned from this:

Barbbtx said:
I still imagine the left will side with the ones who want to build it no matter how many people come out against it.
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I just wanted to know what counted as siding with the ones who want to build it. I personally think building this mosque where they want to is stupid and I question their motivations for wanting to do so. If they wanted a community center for outreach they could probably put it elsewhere and be well more effective. I don't think they really considered the feelings that others would have with a mosque and big community center so close to ground zero. Yet even then, I say it's their right to build it there. They purchased the land legally and meet all requirements for the building. There's nothing I can do to stop them. So I will say that they can build it even if I disagree with the building of it at that location.
 
The Prof said:
for their own personal reasons, friend

it doesn't really matter so much why they're pissed

fact is, they are
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You should probably have some logical reason for being pissed off though. Just being pissed off for pissed off sake isn't really legitimate reason to go against something. The fact that people are pissed off, however, should factor into the other side. Even if people are pissed for illegitimate reasons.

The Prof said:
and then, an extremely thoughtful, kind and sincere poster unburdens her soul to you on this question, and you see her reason as made up
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Hello hyperbole. Unburdened her soul. Come on, she gave an opinion. One I don't think can be logically supported.

The Prof said:
some people don't think the way you do, there's you answer

do you really think everyone should?
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If they were smart.
 
Ikari said:
Well it spawned from this:



I just wanted to know what counted as siding with the ones who want to build it. I personally think building this mosque where they want to is stupid and I question their motivations for wanting to do so. If they wanted a community center for outreach they could probably put it elsewhere and be well more effective. I don't think they really considered the feelings that others would have with a mosque and big community center so close to ground zero. Yet even then, I say it's their right to build it there. They purchased the land legally and meet all requirements for the building. There's nothing I can do to stop them. So I will say that they can build it even if I disagree with the building of it at that location.
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thank you

civil discourse becomes us all
 
Ikari said:
You should probably have some logical reason for being pissed off though.
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we're not really in a position to tell others that their feelings aren't justified, it's logical to them, they are our equals, we should respect that, especially if we want to have improved relations with em

Just being pissed off for pissed off sake isn't really legitimate reason to go against something.
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really, it's pretty clear why, they've made it clear, the mosque there is an affront to their sensibilities

The fact that people are pissed off, however, should factor into the other side. Even if people are pissed for illegitimate reasons.
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their reasons are legitimate to them, they're as legitimate as anyone else's

but, more to the point, whether their feelings should be considered or shouldn't, they will get their way

this is america, everything's politics, ie, power

Hello hyperbole.
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maybe, but the member has really impressed me for her thoughtfulness and kindness and sincerity (as well as her maturity)

Unburdened her soul.
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she's been pretty candid

Come on, she gave an opinion. One I don't think can be logically supported.
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again...

take care, stay classy
 
The Prof said:
we're not really in a position to tell others that their feelings aren't justified, it's logical to them, they are our equals, we should respect that, especially if we want to have improved relations with em
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I don't know about that. There are lots of reasons to be pissed at something, some legitimate some not. Legitimate causes can be supported through logical argument, illegitimate cannot. Just saying that it's mean or it offends me isn't enough for a logical argument. Emotional arguments tend not to be logical.

The Prof said:
really, it's pretty clear why, they've made it clear, the mosque there is an affront to their sensibilities
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That's fine. Lots of things are affronts to many people's sensibilities. They just can't do anything about it without rational reasoning and demonstration of rights violation. People start getting all worked up over things they can't do anything about and it just ends up playing into the hands of the other side. No matter how much they don't like it, they can't stop it. I think the best option in those circumstances is to ignore it. Don't even give it the time of day. You end up much better off for it.

The Prof said:
their reasons are legitimate to them, they're as legitimate as anyone else's
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Legitimacy comes from logical arguments. Their reasons can make sense to them, but it doesn't necessitate legitimacy of position or argument.

The Prof said:
but, more to the point, whether their feelings should be considered or shouldn't, they will get their way
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Who will? The mosque or the people protesting?

The Prof said:
this is america, everything's politics, ie, power
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The only thing which matters here is money
 
TacticalEvilDan said:
You're not paying attention. It's not whether or not you dismiss someone else's opinion -- it's whether or not you dismiss someone's opinion on the basis of the fact that they're a foreigner and as such couldn't possibly know what they're talking about, only to accept that opinion when it supports your agenda.
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Whoop-de-sh*t. There's plenty of folks on the left who dismiss opinions of Americans because we're supposedly not as erudite and cultured as Europeans, except when those opinions happen to coincide with their own.
 
Ikari said:
Well it spawned from this:



I just wanted to know what counted as siding with the ones who want to build it. I personally think building this mosque where they want to is stupid and I question their motivations for wanting to do so. If they wanted a community center for outreach they could probably put it elsewhere and be well more effective. I don't think they really considered the feelings that others would have with a mosque and big community center so close to ground zero. Yet even then, I say it's their right to build it there. They purchased the land legally and meet all requirements for the building. There's nothing I can do to stop them. So I will say that they can build it even if I disagree with the building of it at that location.
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Agreed..... but I will also support any and all that want to protest that Mosque for the duration..... and not at all surprised if it gets bombed, or a sniper or three show up.

Just how smart is it to poke a short stick at a Rattlesnake?

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Crunch said:
and not at all surprised if it gets bombed, or a sniper or three show up.

Just how smart is it to poke a short stick at a Rattlesnake?
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Wow, what a most excellent and well-thought-out position. We should totally threaten the safety of Muslims in this country. That will TOTALLY make things better.

While we're at it, lets burn a few crosses in front of their building to let them know that we mean business.

/sarcasm.
 
Crunch said:
See post 73, and try to keep up.
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Protesting is fine. Making someone's life a hell = harassment or stalking. you should try to be more clear.

I hope you don't get cold in your mankini. I hear that causes shrinkage.
 
Crunch said:
Agreed..... but I will also support any and all that want to protest that Mosque for the duration..... and not at all surprised if it gets bombed, or a sniper or three show up.

Just how smart is it to poke a short stick at a Rattlesnake?

untitled.jpg
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People can protest all they want. They cannot inflict personal or property damage however. We're not god damned terrorists here. Bombing the Mosque or sniping parishioners would 100% be within the definition of terrorist.
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Wow, what a most excellent and well-thought-out position. We should totally threaten the safety of Muslims in this country. That will TOTALLY make things better.

While we're at it, lets burn a few crosses in front of their building to let them know that we mean business.

/sarcasm.
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Are you naive enough to say it can't happen? Is posing the possibility, or even saying you would not be surprised if it happened taking "a most excellent and well-thought-out position"?

Karnack Part Deux strikes again.
 
Ikari said:
There are lots of reasons to be pissed at something, some legitimate some not.
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fine, but you're in no better position than your peers to judge

I think the best option in those circumstances is to ignore it.
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the majority of your equals think differently

The only thing which matters here is money
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it's not rauf's money that's behind this
 
Crunch said:
Are you naive enough to say it can't happen? Is posing the possibility, or even saying you would not be surprised if it happened taking "a most excellent and well-thought-out position"?.
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Actually, it's not unlike those hardcore conservatives who pondered the likelihood that Obama would be assassinated during his presidency, almost gleefully.

I consider it a form of encouragement. It normalizes such behavior, and suggests that some lunatic has the right to throw a violent fiery temper tantrum because he got his widdle feewings huwt.

You may not have the balls to detonate the bomb, but inside your heart, you're applauding it.

Using your reasoning, the blacks who built churches in the South were just provoking the KKK to burn them down.

Right?
 
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Ikari said:
People can protest all they want. They cannot inflict personal or property damage however. We're not god damned terrorists here. Bombing the Mosque or sniping parishioners would 100% be within the definition of terrorist.
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Absolutely..... of course there are none in the US. so they have nothing to fear.

[/sarcasm]
 
Catz Part Deux said:
Actually, it's not unlike those hardcore conservatives who pondered the likelihood that Obama would be assassinated during his presidency, almost gleefully.

I consider it a form of encouragement. It normalizes such behavior, and suggests that we have every right to act like barbaric terrorists because we're throwing a temper tantrum because someone got his widdle feewings huwt.

You may not have the balls to detonate the bomb, but inside your heart, you're applauding it.

That's real class.
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As I said.... Karnack Part Deux strikes (out) again.
 
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