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US Job Market Loses Steam

Grim17 said:
From the summer of 2003 when the tax cuts for everyone went into effect, until the housing and financial markets went belly up, those tax cuts created over 8 million jobs. (See image below)

Why don't you check the statistic from the BLS website and get back to me.
Bureau of Labor Statistics Data
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You I think are confusing correlation and causation.
 
Redress said:
You I think are confusing correlation and causation.
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It's just a big giant coincidence that following the tax cuts implemented by Kennedy, Reagan and Bush Jr, millions of jobs were created.... While the Carter/Obamas method of either raising or not lowering taxes on upper incomes (aka, the majority of small businesses) has yielded nothing but a stagnated economy with little or no job growth.
 
Grim17 said:
It's just a big giant coincidence that following the tax cuts implemented by Kennedy, Reagan and Bush Jr, millions of jobs were created.... While the Carter/Obamas method of either raising or not lowering taxes on upper incomes (aka, the majority of small businesses) has yielded nothing but a stagnated economy with little or no job growth.
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It's probably a similar coincidence that when there are no tax cuts, millions of jobs where created. Err, wait....
 
Grim17 said:
It's just a big giant coincidence that following the tax cuts implemented by Kennedy, Reagan and Bush Jr, millions of jobs were created.... While the Carter/Obamas method of either raising or not lowering taxes on upper incomes (aka, the majority of small businesses) has yielded nothing but a stagnated economy with little or no job growth.
Click to expand...

What is different now, as opposed to the Bush era??? Obama has NOT repelled the tax cuts to the wealthy as of yet.
 
Redress said:
It's probably a similar coincidence that when there are no tax cuts, millions of jobs where created. Err, wait....
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If you are speaking of the Clinton era, you have failed to recognize one big difference. We were economically strong, so there was no need to cut taxes.

When the economy is good, taxes don't need to be cut. In fact they can be gradually raised to lower deficits and increase federal revenue. When the economy is poor and jobs are being lost, lowering taxes across the board helps financially strapped families, as well as provides more capitol for businesses to invest, expand and hire new workers.

Why is this simple, and proven economic theory so hard for the left to comprehend?
 
Grim17 said:
If you are speaking of the Clinton era, you have failed to recognize one big difference. We were economically strong, so there was no need to cut taxes.

When the economy is good, taxes don't need to be cut. In fact they can be gradually raised to lower deficits and increase federal revenue. When the economy is poor and jobs are being lost, lowering taxes across the board helps financially strapped families, as well as provides more capitol for businesses to invest, expand and hire new workers.

Why is this simple, and proven economic theory so hard for the left to comprehend?
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Ah, so there are other factors at play during any time period than just tax cuts. Thank you for proving my point. Why is this so hard for the right to comprehend.
 
Redress said:
Ah, so there are other factors at play during any time period than just tax cuts. Thank you for proving my point. Why is this so hard for the right to comprehend.
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Oh really? And what "factors" are we facing right now?

Looks to me we are facing a stagnant economy with little or no job creation, yet people like you are all for letting the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year for upper income brackets. How about you look back over the last 40 years and tell me what approach has been effective for sparking economic growth under similar conditions like we are faced with now, and what approach has failed? Then apply a bit of common sense and see if you can determine what might be a reasonable approach to the economic problems we face.
 
Grim17 said:
Oh really? And what "factors" are we facing right now?

Looks to me we are facing a stagnant economy with little or no job creation, yet people like you are all for letting the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year for upper income brackets. How about you look back over the last 40 years and tell me what approach has been effective for sparking economic growth under similar conditions like we are faced with now, and what approach has failed? Then apply a bit of common sense and see if you can determine what might be a reasonable approach to the economic problems we face.
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Even Reagan's director of the Office of Management and Budget, David Stockman thinks the Bush tax cuts will bankrupt America.

Stockman: Bush Tax Cuts Will Make U.S. Bankrupt : NPR
 
Middleground said:
What is different now, as opposed to the Bush era??? Obama has NOT repelled the tax cuts to the wealthy as of yet.
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They expire on their own next year and those whom it affects know their belts will tighten.
 
Grim17 said:
Oh really? And what "factors" are we facing right now?

Looks to me we are facing a stagnant economy with little or no job creation, yet people like you are all for letting the Bush tax cuts expire at the end of the year for upper income brackets. How about you look back over the last 40 years and tell me what approach has been effective for sparking economic growth under similar conditions like we are faced with now, and what approach has failed? Then apply a bit of common sense and see if you can determine what might be a reasonable approach to the economic problems we face.
Click to expand...

Well, we could look at the Reagan model, which included raising taxes(PolitiFact | Sarah Palin said Democrats are planning "the largest tax increase in U.S. history"):

a 1982 tax increase signed into law by President Ronald Reagan. The tax increase resulting from the Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 came to 1.23 percent of GDP when the tax changes were fully implemented, four years after the law's passage.
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He combined that with stimulative spending, and the economy recovered.
 
Harshaw said:
They expire on their own next year and those whom it affects know their belts will tighten.
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Since the current plan is only to allow the tax to expire on those making over 200k(250k for couples), we are only talking about people with very loose belts. It's not like they will have to give up much.
 
Harshaw said:
They expire on their own next year and those whom it affects know their belts will tighten.
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Oh gosh my girlfriends hate domestic caviar they get real cranky but they will just have buckle down and take it:mrgreen:
 
winston53660 said:
Oh gosh my girlfriends hate domestic caviar they get real cranky but they will just have buckle down and take it:mrgreen:
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She asked what's different.

If you know that you're going to have less money next year, you don't get bold with your spending this year. And you can crack jokes about "caviar," etc., but the taxes affect capital investment and behavior toward same.
 
Harshaw said:
They expire on their own next year and those whom it affects know their belts will tighten.
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Show me where these humongous cuts to the wealthy have affected jobs. The trickle down has not seemed to work one iota.
 
Grim17 said:
It's just a big giant coincidence that following the tax cuts implemented by Kennedy, Reagan and Bush Jr, millions of jobs were created.... While the Carter/Obamas method of either raising or not lowering taxes on upper incomes (aka, the majority of small businesses) has yielded nothing but a stagnated economy with little or no job growth.
Click to expand...

What were the federal funds target rates under these respective administrations? What is it now?
 
Harshaw said:
She asked what's different.

If you know that you're going to have less money next year, you don't get bold with your spending this year. And you can crack jokes about "caviar," etc., but the taxes affect capital investment and behavior toward same.
Click to expand...

I know taxes going up will not affect my investing as long as I think I can make money.
 
Middleground said:
Show me where these humongous cuts to the wealthy have affected jobs. The trickle down has not seemed to work one iota.
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1) They weren't "humongous."

2) 7-8 million jobs were created after they were enacted.

3) You asked what was different today, so I answered it.
 
winston53660 said:
I know taxes going up will not affect my investing as long as I think I can make money.
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What else you are going to cut back on to keep your level of investment steady when more of your money is taken in taxes?
 
Grim17 said:
.....Why is this simple, and proven economic theory so hard for the left to comprehend?.....
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It's not a matter of comprehending, it is totally contrary to their goals. Statists want control and they will try to convince themselves (at least the deluded rank in file) that water flows uphill. 'Nuff said!
 
"Created after" does not mean "caused by". In fact, since tax cuts other than the ones that will probably be allowed to expire occurred at the same time, and other factors came into play.
 
Grim17 said:
From the summer of 2003 when the tax cuts for everyone went into effect, until the housing and financial markets went belly up, those tax cuts created over 8 million jobs. (See image below)

Why don't you check the statistic from the BLS website and get back to me.
Bureau of Labor Statistics Data
Click to expand...

What were the top marginal tax rates during this period? Similarly, tax revenues made up what percentage of GDP during this period? Finally, tax revenues made up what percentage of GDP during the Reagan and Bush administrations?
 
Redress said:
"Created after" does not mean "caused by".
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I never said it did. But MG said "it hasn't seemed to work one iota." Yet there was job growth. So perhaps you should be after her to explain why she thinks the tax cuts couldn't have affected it at all. That is what "not one iota" means.
 
Middleground said:
This is slightly off-topic, but it seems to be that the Bush tax cuts to the very wealthy (which are still in effect) did not increase jobs one iota.
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Not onlpy off topic, but dead wrong: tax cuts just for the wealthy. If you actually lived here, you might understand what's going on.
 
Redress said:
"Created after" does not mean "caused by". In fact, since tax cuts other than the ones that will probably be allowed to expire occurred at the same time, and other factors came into play.
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Care to explain that in detail, with supporting documentation?
 
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