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After 107 years in Milwaukee, Harley could leave

<-----------BMW s1200rr

Im looking BMW next...Ive ridden a buddies 1200...Im looking at the 1300...probably next year. Get rid of the 650 scoot and the 1500. I think the BMW would be the best of both worlds
 
2010_BMW_F_650GS.jpg


Hot damn that's a sexy bike.

2010 BMW F 650 GS Motorcycle Specs, Reviews, Prices, Inventory, Dealers, Questions, Parts
 
I don't know. I live in a non-union state, and I negotiate my own employment contractual arrangements.
then clearly you appreciate the benefit of employees having an opportunity to negotiate their conditions of employment

I wouldn't know anything about sucking the teet of a union.
since you have those other sucking skills, we will give you a pass on this one
 
You have good taste Rev.
If I had the cash, I'd def get a BMW touring bike.

I'm a bit of a Euro fag when it comes to two wheelers and prefer scooters.

Aint nothin faggy about the Aprilla 850 Mana, baby! And I have a Burgman 650 that will (and has) beat any Harley off the line. And a trunk to carry a few sixers? Puleeeeeese...
 
then clearly you appreciate the benefit of employees having an opportunity to negotiate their conditions of employment


since you have those other sucking skills, we will give you a pass on this one

Sure...those unions have negotiated a SAAAWEEEEEEET deal for all those auto workers...right?
 
Being a resident of Milwaukee I've heard a bit about this, and it has little to do with "greedy unions" actually. Harley has been looking to cut its budget in its operations in Milwaukee to the tune of around $50 million, and the workers have already taken significant cuts. So to blame the unions is just partisan hackery.

Oh, and I can't stand Harley's. If you're going to get a bike then get a real ride and build it yourself for $5000, don't buy a $30,000 piece of **** from Harley. Harley's older stuff was really good, and is still highly regarded by true motorcycle enthusiasts, but the stuff they make now is absolute garbage.

EDIT: This has also been going on for ages, and I'm sick of hearing about it. It's not news unless they actually do it.
 
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EDIT: This has also been going on for ages, and I'm sick of hearing about it. It's not news unless they actually do it.

Yeah, it's been talked about for quite a few years but nothing has come to fruition, although they have closed up a few places up north IIRC.
 
Sure...those unions have negotiated a SAAAWEEEEEEET deal for all those auto workers...right?

glad you agree. so, why the opposition to unions?
 
glad you agree. so, why the opposition to unions?

Because they have become partisan political whores that use their members; not employee representatives.

Thats the short answer...

I can go into many anecdotal stories of where the electrical unions have ****ed over their members...where federal union reps have totally ****ed over both sides...the tendency to make it impossible to fire piece of **** workers or ignore criminal behaviors...etc etc etc...but then Im sur eyou would have GREAT stories of how wonderful and effective the unions are. Meanwhile...the auto industry is pretty much GONE...most industrial jobs are gone...and the union has played a part in that.

Make no mistake...I see the value in the early formation of unions. But frankly...their usefulness has pretty much been played out. I know union stewards on military installations that do not **** all all day long except smoke and send out mailings...and when their members come for help they are ignored but if the installation wants to reconfigure an office area...stop the ****ing presses...we have to have an investigation, inspection...cant do it because they didnt get adequate notice, changing phone numbers represents a hardship to their workers...on and on and on...
 
Regarding Harley owners...I LOVE the rugged "individualist"...the anti-societal outcast attitude...the rebel...the indendent free thinking, free wheeling individuals...all of them...dressed alike in their Harley Davidson boots, scarves, hats, belt buckles, undies, t shirts, wallets, and chains. They dont conform to no damn society pressures! :roll:


I cannot think of any other company that has bennefited more from its copyright. As stated about the average HD owner will have a complete head to toe dressing with the HD emblem. They will also have other HD merchandise in their homes.
To me the painting of one's self with the HD emblem can only be topped by a NASCAR driver with all his sponsors plastered over his jumpsuit.

Am just surprized that Harley hasn't come out with a Harley pickup to carry the bikes in.

Years back riding my Kawasaki 1500 to Sturgis I passed another biker with a tee shirt that had on its back " Nice trailer *****". Those of you ride will understand that shirt.
 
I cannot think of any other company that has bennefited more from its copyright. As stated about the average HD owner will have a complete head to toe dressing with the HD emblem. They will also have other HD merchandise in their homes.
To me the painting of one's self with the HD emblem can only be topped by a NASCAR driver with all his sponsors plastered over his jumpsuit.

Am just surprized that Harley hasn't come out with a Harley pickup to carry the bikes in.

Years back riding my Kawasaki 1500 to Sturgis I passed another biker with a tee shirt that had on its back " Nice trailer *****". Those of you ride will understand that shirt.

Pssh they have had those. :lol:

Road Test Review: 2010 Ford Harley-Davidson F-150 - PickupTrucks.com News
 
this assessment was conducted 18 months ago. but it appears to give credence to rumblings that about 50% of the paper HD financed is in some degree of default. reportedly, significant numbers of repo'd bikes are being warehoused to try to maintain vehicle/brand value:
Feb 12 - Fitch Ratings has downgraded Harley-Davidson Inc. (NYSE: HOG) and HOG's 100% owned subsidiary, Harley-Davidson Financial Services, Inc. (HDFS) as
listed below. ...
The Rating Outlook on all the ratings is Negative. Fitch's actions affect
approximately $3.2 billion of debt at HDFS and $782 million of debt at HOG. Due
to the existence of a support agreement and demonstrated support by the parent,
HDFS's ratings are linked to those of HOG.

The rating actions are primarily related to developments at HDFS, including
a change in funding profile, which has led to increased borrowing costs,
deteriorating asset quality performance, and reduced operating performance.

The downgrades also reflect a reduced outlook for 2009 sales and margins at
HOG (the manufacturing operations) and higher cash outlays related to pension
and restructuring charges.

The Negative Outlook reflects the weak economic environment, which could
lead to further restructuring actions at HOG if volumes come under additional
pressure; cash outlays related to the company's pension plans in 2009 and 2010,
and dealer profitability.

In addition, the deteriorating economic environment will continue to
pressure consumers and could lead to negative asset quality performance beyond
current expectations at HDFS, which could affect profitability through
additional mark to market losses on loans held for sale, retained interest
impairments, and/or increased provisioning.
...
The 'A-' rating reflects HOG's brand strength, distribution network, solid
cash generation from its manufacturing operations, good manufacturing operating
margins
, and expanding international presence.
...
Fitch is also concerned with HDFS's long-term alternatives
to fund originations if the capital markets environment remains status quo.
Based on HDFS's historical use of the asset backed securities market ($2.5
billion in 2007, $540 million in 2008), and lower retail origination levels in
2009, Fitch believes HDFS needs approximately $1 billion in financing in 2009
in addition to its available revolving credit facilities to replace
securitization funding used historically.

This funding would allow HDFS to maintain its historical funding volume of
retail U.S. sales at approximately 53%. The company made significant progress
toward the funding goal when HOG issued $600 million in notes last week,
although the 15% coupon will pressure margins in HDFS's operation. Fitch will
look for HDFS to continue to develop and execute contingency funding plans to
meet funding requirements for 2009 and beyond on a cost-effective basis.

If HDFS is unable to obtain all or part of the needed funding, HOG's
motorcycle sales could come under additional pressure if HOG's retail customers
are unable to find alternative financing sources.
...
Fitch believes HDFS's operating performance will continue to trend weaker
due to the economic and capital markets environment, manifesting itself in
higher provision expenses, charge-offs, and funding costs over the near- to
intermediate-term, with the potential for further retained interest impairments
and additional mark-to-market write-downs on loans held for sale.
Fitch assumes
that HDFS's underlying collateral is more discretionary in nature and would
rank well below other assets in terms of priority of payment.
...
In 2008, total Harley-Davidson brand motorcycles shipments decreased 27,140
units or 8.2% to 303,479 bikes, while retail sales decreased 24,005 units or
7.1% to 313,769 units, indicating seasonally adjusted dealer inventories have
decreased. ...
[bold emphasis added by bubba to compare and contrast employee focused results to management caused results]
TEXT-Fitch cuts Harley-Davidson issuer default rating | Reuters
 
every contract between labor and management is one which has been negotiated by and signed off on by management? Quite correct.
why would management agree to terms which are detrimental to the viability of the company ... a reasonable person might ask ... [
to answer that rhetorical question, it would be because management was incompetent and/or because management was willing to cave in order to realize short term benefits while recognizing they probably would not be there long term to face the down side of their contracted agreement
a non-rhetorical question: why is that the union's fault?

Management gives in to union pressure, simply because management faced with the inevitability of a strike that could if prolonged be the cause of a company having to close down.
Union when they were initially started were there to protect workforce from harsh unfair practices.
Conditions such as were prevalent in those times no longer apply, in many instances Legislation protects workforce.
Unions nowadays are little more than a form of Mafia Protection racket.
If they are permitted to carry sway over otherwise successful businesses, all that will happen is that those businesses will eiither close down or move overseas.
The only other option is for some Corrupt Government to step in and take over that business and install Union as management, hey guess what, no outrageous demands are made of that business again.
What I have described is Communism, compulsory takeover of businesses deemed to important to be allowed to fail.
Of course your response would be that this cannot happen in the USA.
My response would be look at Chrysler and GM.
 
Management gives in to union pressure, simply because management faced with the inevitability of a strike that could if prolonged be the cause of a company having to close down.
The management should also know that giving too much away can sink the business. Labor knows that as well so demands they make that are unreasonable may cost business and jobs.

I'm less inclined to believe that unions would actively make choices they knew would sink a business and more inclined to believe that management tends to exaggerate the impact unions and their demands have on the bottom line.

Union when they were initially started were there to protect workforce from harsh unfair practices.
Conditions such as were prevalent in those times no longer apply, in many instances Legislation protects workforce.
Often, this legislation comes about with the resources and effort of the labor unions. Also consider that legislation is not always enough. Unions have legal and fiscal resources to support workers and help them work as a unified front for their interests.

Unions nowadays are little more than a form of Mafia Protection racket.
If they are permitted to carry sway over otherwise successful businesses, all that will happen is that those businesses will eiither close down or move overseas.
The only other option is for some Corrupt Government to step in and take over that business and install Union as management, hey guess what, no outrageous demands are made of that business again.
I agree that many modern unions have lost their way and lost sight of what their actual responsibility is, but I hardly see that as a reason to abandon the concept of unions altogether. After all, we are all intimately familiar with the multitude of legal infractions that corporations commit and the power they wield, why do we not disband them? And what unions do is (usually) legal.

Unions still have their place in our society but I would definitely not be against the federal government limiting the sphere of influence unions are allowed to wield. See Wal-Mart for an example of a large workplace and it's conditions as a result of a lack of representation.

What I have described is Communism, compulsory takeover of businesses deemed to important to be allowed to fail.
Of course your response would be that this cannot happen in the USA.
My response would be look at Chrysler and GM.
What you're describing is McCarthyist paranoia and it's getting quite boring.
 
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this assessment was conducted 18 months ago. But it appears to give credence to rumblings that about 50% of the paper hd financed is in some degree of default. Reportedly, significant numbers of repo'd bikes are being warehoused to try to maintain vehicle/brand value:
[bold emphasis added by bubba to compare and contrast employee focused results to management caused results]
text-fitch cuts harley-davidson issuer default rating | reuters

But ZOMG the unions r at fault see!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:

jujuman said:
management gives in to union pressure, simply because management faced with the inevitability of a strike that could if prolonged be the cause of a company having to close down.
Union when they were initially started were there to protect workforce from harsh unfair practices.
Conditions such as were prevalent in those times no longer apply, in many instances legislation protects workforce.
Unions nowadays are little more than a form of mafia protection racket.
If they are permitted to carry sway over otherwise successful businesses, all that will happen is that those businesses will eiither close down or move overseas.
The only other option is for some corrupt government to step in and take over that business and install union as management, hey guess what, no outrageous demands are made of that business again.
What i have described is communism, compulsory takeover of businesses deemed to important to be allowed to fail.
Of course your response would be that this cannot happen in the usa.
My response would be look at chrysler and gm.

lol
 
You have good taste Rev.
If I had the cash, I'd def get a BMW touring bike.

I'm a bit of a Euro fag when it comes to two wheelers and prefer scooters.



I don't like touring bikes very much. Too much restriction on how far you can push those things. ;)


051109-s1000rr-1.jpg
 
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